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Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:52 am
by joykler
thats my way

but it allows making lists of automatic
button pressing efffects

it would have a gui with a list of stats of the thing you are controlling
a screen for messaging
and a command gui
with buttons that can be pressed to change the stats
or making a automatic list of commands [this is also configured with buttons]

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:07 am
by Ivan2006
Actually, I think joyks Idea would be very good, just have the "mainframes" be software-wise and not actual blocks.
People will need to make own programmes or the possible builds are restricted by the programming system.
Again, I recommend something like Mindstorms NXT.
Idiot. Proof. GUI. Programming.

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:08 am
by Keon
But that makes it impossible to do most coding.

I guess there's two things for coding: Just commanding your ship by pressing buttons, and being able to code whatever, which could lead to things like autonomous scouts or bombers. I like both. Is the first what we are talking about?

One is like using windows, and the other is like coding a program to use.

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:11 am
by Ivan2006
Mindstorms NXT programming allows for input and output to be related in almost any possible way.
The only thing it misses are logic gates, but who says we can´t have them?

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:37 am
by Keon
Mindstorms NXT programming allows for input and output to be related in almost any possible way.
The only thing it misses are logic gates, but who says we can´t have them?
You can do logic functions with NXT.

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:52 am
by joykler
the pressing of buttons would be code

but it wouldnt be straight noticable

look i have learned this way at my high school there you needed to do some programming [ugh.. fake]

but it is very nice to use for this you got a set program with tasks

one task was to make a fire alarm
that is hooked up to a button and detects fire

so you got a series of items to choose from
a panel with the numbers of the rooms
a button with the number of the button
a alarm with the number of the alarm

then you got a few extra programs
and you needed to do this
Spoiler:
start
loop until hit stop button

check room 1 if fire
[set alarm on]
if not proceed
check button 2 if hit
[set alarm 3 on]
if not proceed
check room 2 if fire
[set alarm on]
if not proceed
check button 2 if hit
[set alarm 3 on]
if not proceed
check room 3 if fire
[set alarm on]
if not proceed
check button 2 if hit
[set alarm 3 on]
if not proceed
end

if you had programmed this you could click the start button and a cursor would keep track of wich programm it is doing
the whole programm would be done once in 2 sec [this was only to show the process]

while it was running the teacher would hit a button to create fire in say room 3
then the program needed to see it and set the alarm off
but the alarm also had to stop if the fire was extinguished

or the teacher hit the "alarm" button then the programm needed to see this and respond

this was only one of the things we needed to program

we also had to make a fan for in the freezer that would start if the temprature would be too high

and a system that could tell where you where in the house and set it to the oppropriate conditions
like when dark turn on lights
when 17 degrees start heater until 20 degrees
when 30 degrees cool down until 24 degrees
when human in bedroom AND at 11:00 pm close curtains
please read my spoiler

if we would implement this idea
i will send wich programm it was so everybody is clear tommorow
we could have like basic ship controll blocks. steering wheel , gps AND computers that do the rest
alot of the systems would have favorite conditions and working conditions

what if...
we programmed the machines with a working condition
and like i sayd make a side option on the machine/computer
to program your own code in . you could use that to set the machine in diffrent ways
allowing autonomous scouts [if they are good enough]
on the main gui would be panels with buttons, these buttons would be used in the basic program
so like if someone keeps the basic code for a gun and names a button fire , the gun would just fire.
you could also name the button self defence then when you hit it the gun would fire at targets its programming told him to shoot

but important is there also needs to be a button to save diffrent codes and reset to default

and by linking all these systems up, on a ship,base,sattelite,space station. and naming the diffrent machines it would be possible to make programms to controll the whole ship even in dangerous situations. [this would be hard but thats for the player to do]

for that we would need alot of sensors
alsot of variables [check variables and statistics]
but not so many code


well ...
did i explain well
everyone clear
i am glad so many people already support me
i dont know anything about code
but i know a bit about this

if it isnt completely clear please pm me
and just say here if you agree or not
i will post this in the op

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:18 am
by Ivan2006
Well, that´s exactly what the NXT-system does, just without anyone having to know any command lines and having a quick overfiew of what a program does without reading all the code.
If you don´t know it, I really recommend looking into it (well, maybe not buying an NXT, but there should be vids and stuff around)

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:22 am
by fr0stbyte124
I hated the NXT system. Way, way too weak to do anything much fancier than following a line.

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:25 am
by joykler
but is it good enough

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:32 am
by fr0stbyte124
Anything the scripting instructions don't do must be compensated by pre-defined code to get it the rest of the way to functionality. Things like target tracking, navigation, balancing power load, etc. The less control you give the player to customize, the less sandbox-y the gameplay becomes.

At the very least, I would like to have simple-view and an advanced-view, so that players so inclined can have more control if they want it.

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:39 am
by joykler
but i want to give full controll

the machine has a default code
but you can change this to work diferently

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:44 am
by fr0stbyte124
First of all, I thought we were in agreement that computers would be monolithic units and not something you build logic out of like redstone. I think you are underestimating the complexity of what would be happening behind the scenes and what level of control you can realistically have over it without understanding what it is doing.

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:09 pm
by joykler
are you talking to me ?

i dont mentioned redstone enywhere

i was talking about monolithic units [what does it actually mean i think a single block]
i have a total diffrent kind of circuit
my circuit contains
a series of machine controll computers
controlled by a terminal
thats controlled by a mainframe
thats controlled by computers

and no i dont know the total complexity

i think about this

the diffrent machines that need to function to fly the actual ship
the steering is done by the thrusters
if you use sensors to notice incoming objects and the fly route it should take to get to its destination
a player desinged programm can let the thrusters do the right things to get where they need to go

the lvl of controll
pitch up pitch down
roll left roll right
adjust forward/backward speed
full stop

but can you tell me whats the diffrence between a player pressing the
w [up] button or letting an computer in it saying [up]

because it wouldnt make alot of diffrence i think

or would the actual programming be that hard

to prototype
Spoiler:
i have thought over your idea of making automatic fighters with this
i dont think thats possible because all of the factors you need to calculate in

but why not adding the option of giving a computer artificial intelligence
if you do that you and you activate it it gives a list of machines that need to bee connected for it to work
you could select freighter fighter bomber
and each of these have requirements
if these are forfilled you can order it to go somewhere or ship something protects something bomb something
the rest of the machines on the ship can be manually programmed.

Re: Computers

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:07 pm
by joykler
is this idea accepted ?