Religion Thread

[Prototype]

Perfection is beyond human comprehension.

It is also impossible.

[fr0stbyte124]

Quantum mechanics states it is impossible for anything to know the position/velocity of particles with perfect precision. And it's a fundamental law, like the speed of light, which the universe with twist itself into unrecognizable forms in order to uphold.
Not even a god of creation would be allowed to know everything. At its most fundamental level, perfection is a joke to the universe.

Science > philosophy

[fr0stbyte124]

They've done it with Helium. It becomes a Bose-Einstein condensate with incredibly bizarre properties which manage to avoid violating the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. In fact, Einstein was originally able to predict how this form of matter would behave simply off the assumption that Heisenberg uncertainty could not be defied.

If there is a god, he has some weird ideas about how the universe should work.

[Iv121]

Well science is also a religion of it's sort - who told you the earth is round ? Did you see it with your own eyes ? No, but the scientists told you so and so you believe, the cult of the white coats , same goes with religion, you've never seen it you don't know what's up there and so the only thing left to do is to believe to the bunch of dudes who wrote the holy books. BTW we were created innocent, that innocence lead us to eat from the fruits of the tree of knowledge which taught us to define good and bad. BTW Adam and Eva's crime wasn't eating the fruits but escaping responsibility and blaming each other.

About the all knowing god there are different approaches seen for it in the bible - one indeed claims that god knows everything and his reasons are obscured from us being too difficult to comprehend (like quantum mechanics ) while the other claiming that humans have free choice between good and evil. The God can't predict which choice you would make because it is yours to make. In addition another approach claims that God gives us trials not for him to know us but for us know ourselves better.

[Prototype]

Actually you can see that the earth is round, ever heard of a lunar eclipse?

[Iv121]

Well who knows why it happens, probably because the sun moves around earth in circles !

[Prototype]

Nope, they used maths to work out that earth does in fact orbit the sun (and maths is probably the only thing that doesn't lie), although it took a while to figure it out because all the people who got close were executed.

And if the sun moved round the earth in circles, you would still get lunar eclipses, so the earth is still round.

[Iv121]

Listen don’t blow this up I'm just making a point, and the big bang theory ? You can't prove that ... you can say we pick radiation waves and remains of the shockwave but who said you actually pick them ? We are bound to trust you again, no one has ever saw the big bang and so no one will be ever sure in it's existence. Same goes for anything we ever knew and call it "science" - science is never true . They called the Atom "Atom" because it was the smallest particle that couldn't be divided ... WAS ... then we discovered electrons and protons ... same will always happen with science, there is nothing definite in this world , all a matter of perspective.

[Prototype]

Difference between scientific fact and scientific theory, you are saying that theory is like religion, that is correct.
Most of what we call science is just theoretical or based off theoretical stuff, but for any defined law of physics, there is a mathematical function to prove it.

Big Bang and stuff we can't know is true, and anyone who tells you it is true does not know a thing about science, it's just an idea created to explain stuff, like aspects of religion, but the difference between theoretical science and religion, is religions tell you things are true, science tells you things might be true, but may not be.

Science isn't completely true, but doesn't pretend to be, no real scientist will tell you that something is an absolute truth, unfortunately non-scientists who don't know anything about the matter are generally unaware that what they are hearing is only theoretical.

I'm not trying to blow you up here, what you say is correct, I'm just explaining the differed here,

[joykler]

well they can see the universe expanding from a certain point
and see into that point to a younger universe

so that would be provable

and at this point we have a couple kinds of god
the god that knows and changes everything
the god that knows all but cant change anything
the god that only started the universe
the god that challenges us
the god that cant change human beings because they have their own rights
the god that already made us perfect but that is not very fun for uss
the god that experiments
the god that doesnt exist

so we all have a diffrent opinion

but the last one makes sense to me most

[Iv121]

The question is what do you call facts .. the atom was a fact ...

@ Joykler you can't say he exists and not in the same sentence ...

Also it is a fact there are many things we can't explain and probably never will. Who made the universe ? That is the question most of us ask to define who god is, we believe he is the entity that made the world, whoever this (or those) entity is he is what we believe to be god.

[Prototype]

The atom was not a fact, people just thought it was, although when they did think that it was fact, science was not as sophisticated as it is now, now we realise that the closer you look at something, the stranger it gets (I mean first we had atoms, then protons neutrons and electrons, then stuff like quarks and neutrinos and strange hadrons and stuff, and then there was evidence that there were more quarks)

I would not call many things absolute fact, there is a difference between true fact and accepted fact, the atom was accepted fact, but 1+1=2 is true fact, they aren't quite the same. Really the only true facts come from maths, hence the purpose of science, specifically physics is to define the universe with a single, or a set of mathematical formulas.

[Chairman_Tiel]

Was Hitler a Christian?