BTW vs Forge. Blah blah blah blah blah.

[Iv121]

Conspiracy, always interesting stuff

[҉]

If that's the only example you can come up with, well, I can't concede the point because Flowerchild's a * by any definition.

I agree with you. FlowerChild's an asshole. But in this case at least, he's also correct.

As for other examples, look at all the guys advertising FML in Risugami's thread. I think it's died down a bit now because the MCF moderators finally stepped in, but they spent a month or so replying to every bug report or help post on the Modloader thread with explanations of why switching to Forge Modloader would fix all their problems. That is douchbaggery beyond even what I've seen FlowerChild attempt. And there's the whole deal with the ExtraBiomesXL mod. I'm not sure how to talk about that one because the problem was that there are two more or less equivalent mods that add more biomes, ExtraBiomesXL and BiomesExpanded (I think). One of them uses Forge and the other one doesn't, and I can't remember which one was which. But in any case, LexManos himself told the people on the Forge forums to go hate on the modder of the non-Forge one for not using Forge, and to talk about how much better the Forge one was. There are a number of examples of that, but that was the one that Lex himself started (also the one I can post here without having to do research, which is just as important). If you look around, there's no shortage of examples of the Forge people being assholes to assorted modders. It's just that most of them don't complain about it, because the ones that do end up like FlowerChild: Hated on and referred to as Dong Princess. What does that tell you about the Forge people?

[Chairman_Tiel]

Hmm. You know, I once went into something with full knowledge that the guy running it was a jerk (madrealms). You have this "It won't happen to me!" mentality, but eventually that stuff filters down to your level and directly affects you.

I guess you're right. It's not like FC is using Forge, but it apparently is evil

I still insist Better Than Wolves is the worst mod to grace MC on account of the sheer jerkass-ness of its maker, and you should be ashamed of even participating in their forum.

[Ivan2006]

Hmm. You know, I once went into something with full knowledge that the guy running it was a jerk (madrealms). You have this "It won't happen to me!" mentality, but eventually that stuff filters down to your level and directly affects you.

I guess you're right. It's not like FC is using Forge, but it apparently is evil

I still insist Better Than Wolves is the worst mod to grace MC on account of the sheer jerkass-ness of its maker, and you should be ashamed of even participating in their forum.

the main weaknesses of better than wolves are, in my opinion:
1)no compatibility. It just has no way of working together with other industrial/mechanical mods.
2)it has quite... old-fashioned ways of installing.

[Chairman_Tiel]

Both on account of Dong Princess's stubbornness

[҉]

I still insist Better Than Wolves is the worst mod to grace MC on account of the sheer jerkass-ness of its maker, and you should be ashamed of even participating in their forum.

Now that I will not agree to. I left the BTW community because of personal objections to the way FlowerChild runs their forum. I think he's an asshole. But he is an extremely competent game designer, and can really see that when you play through BTW. Minecraft with BTW actually feels like you're playing a game, rather than just with a toy. Does anyone here still play Vanilla for the sake of gameplay? That's what I thought. We use Vanilla almost exclusively to make art, because it's not fun to play as a game after a month or so. Better Than Wolves isn't like that at all, and as a result I would probably rank it as the single best mod around, at least in its niche. It's hard to compare it to something like Flan's Mod, because they do such different things.

As for compatibility, what you mean in this case is that it does not work with Forge. That is manifestly true; in fact it is the only thing that many people know about BTW. It will never work with Forge. However, if another mod also does not need Forge, FlowerChild is perfectly fine with compatibility. He generally doesn't go out of his way to make his mod compatible with others, but he has on occasion, such as with Millenaire (before that moved to Forge). When you ask for compatibility, you usually aren't asking 'Can you make this work with X? They would go will together.' You are saying 'Make this compatible with Forge so I can use it alongside my fifty other mods, and coherent gameplay be damned.' That's what FlowerChild doesn't go for.

For installation, it has exactly one step: Drop all this @#$% in the .jar. I don't know what else you want from him.

[fr0stbyte124]

For installation, it has exactly one step: Drop all this @#$% in the .jar. I don't know what else you want from him.

Obviously, I want it to work with my fifty other mods, coherent gameplay be damned, duh!

[Chairman_Tiel]

*shrug* I've never gotten into the gameplay. Pretty much every attempt to expound on traditional Minecraft mechanics has failed to appeal to my eyes.

And no, I'm pretty sure he goes out of his way to make his mod incompatible with everything else. You can see on the MCF post he says something along the lines of, "I will not make my mod compatible with anything else because it would ruin the gameplay I set up", and goes so far as to brag about any incompatibilities he can find..

[҉]

If they are asses to you. Be a bigger ass to them. Repeat until nobody is left alive, then I can conquer the world without interference.

However I say don't judge a mod by completely its owner, but if the owner is that much of an ass, steal the mod and claim it your own, if the owner is an ass, people will support you, for he is an ass, and nobody likes an ass (except other asses, but nobody likes them)

This flower baby guy sounds like a level 9 ass though (Zothen is level 7), so he's going to make a lot of enemies, he'll get what he deserves, I guarantee you.

[Ass count=9 10]

And what does that make you, hmm, Prototype? You don't even know the guy, and you're already calling him names. I spent several months interacting with him before I made a judgement, and even now I respect him and his work enough that I would not insult him. Who are you to do so?

[҉]

*shrug* I've never gotten into the gameplay. Pretty much every attempt to expound on traditional Minecraft mechanics has failed to appeal to my eyes.

And no, I'm pretty sure he goes out of his way to make his mod incompatible with everything else. You can see on the MCF post he says something along the lines of, "I will not make my mod compatible with anything else because it would ruin the gameplay I set up", and goes so far as to brag about any incompatibilities he can find..

He's not really doing that. At this point, BTW is a total conversion. He says he's going to begin labeling it as such after the 1.5 update.

He has said that repeatedly about Forge. It is a true statement. I challenge you to find a single example of him 'bragging' about incompatibility.

[fr0stbyte124]

@Tiel
That sounds more like grouchiness to me than being nefarious. He's saying he's not going to go out of his to do something he doesn't want to do, not that he's slapping DRM on the whole thing.

[Prototype]

think he's an asshole. But he is an extremely competent game designer

I left the whole sentence, that looks like an insult to me, including a compliment does not negate an insult.

What does it make me? Probably an ass
But enough of this argument.

[Chairman_Tiel]

*shrug* I've never gotten into the gameplay. Pretty much every attempt to expound on traditional Minecraft mechanics has failed to appeal to my eyes.

And no, I'm pretty sure he goes out of his way to make his mod incompatible with everything else. You can see on the MCF post he says something along the lines of, "I will not make my mod compatible with anything else because it would ruin the gameplay I set up", and goes so far as to brag about any incompatibilities he can find..

He's not really doing that. At this point, BTW is a total conversion. He says he's going to begin labeling it as such after the 1.5 update.

He has said that repeatedly about Forge. It is a true statement. I challenge you to find a single example of him 'bragging' about incompatibility.

Again. I will post. I will argue. But I will not play Mr. Internet Detective to appease someone online.

I recall the third time I visited his page on MCF. At the beginning of the OP there was an exclamation remarking that BTW was then incompatible with yet another mod, and then something along the lines of 'Yaaay!'. I don't remember the exact wording but I do have to say he was pretty exuberant about it.

This is actually turning out pretty interestingly. You say Forge is evil because the project's lead is a jerk, yet you openly agree that BTW's only dev is also one and you incessantly support it.

[҉]

*shrug* I've never gotten into the gameplay. Pretty much every attempt to expound on traditional Minecraft mechanics has failed to appeal to my eyes.

And no, I'm pretty sure he goes out of his way to make his mod incompatible with everything else. You can see on the MCF post he says something along the lines of, "I will not make my mod compatible with anything else because it would ruin the gameplay I set up", and goes so far as to brag about any incompatibilities he can find..

He's not really doing that. At this point, BTW is a total conversion. He says he's going to begin labeling it as such after the 1.5 update.

He has said that repeatedly about Forge. It is a true statement. I challenge you to find a single example of him 'bragging' about incompatibility.

Again. I will post. I will argue. But I will not play Mr. Internet Detective to appease someone online.

I recall the third time I visited his page on MCF. At the beginning of the OP there was an exclamation remarking that BTW was then incompatible with yet another mod, and then something along the lines of 'Yaaay!'. I don't remember the exact wording but I do have to say he was pretty exuberant about it.

This is actually turning out pretty interestingly. You say Forge is evil because the project's lead is a jerk, yet you openly agree that BTW's only dev is also one and you incessantly support it.

The BTW OP says "Incompatible with everything!" in an attempt to deter the trolls. It doesn't really work, but it's like that anyway. Although I will say that I'm frequently amazed by the number of people who don't seem to know what 'incompatible' means.

Forge isn't evil because the project leader is a jerk, although he certainly is. Forge is evil because they steal mods, not in the same way as Tekkit but every bit as wrongly. I don't judge any work by how I feel about the author. How I feel about the author certainly affects whether I want to be part of that community (I do not want to be part of either the Forge or BTW communities). How well the mod works affects how I feel about it. BTW works amazingly well, so I really like it. Forge also works well, although I think it's based on a somewhat silly premise. I don't dislike Forge because it's bad in and of itself. I dislike Forge and the entire Forge crew because their policies are so absolutely abhorrent that they make me feel sick. That doesn't keep me from using Forge when I want to play with a mod that requires it, but it does make me feel obligated to take FlowerChild's side when there's an argument on the Internet about it. BTW doesn't steal mods.

[Chairman_Tiel]

The BTW OP says "Incompatible with everything!" in an attempt to deter the trolls. It doesn't really work, but it's like that anyway. Although I will say that I'm frequently amazed by the number of people who don't seem to know what 'incompatible' means.

Forge isn't evil because the project leader is a jerk, although he certainly is. Forge is evil because they steal mods, not in the same way as Tekkit but every bit as wrongly. I don't judge any work by how I feel about the author. How I feel about the author certainly affects whether I want to be part of that community (I do not want to be part of either the Forge or BTW communities). How well the mod works affects how I feel about it. BTW works amazingly well, so I really like it. Forge also works well, although I think it's based on a somewhat silly premise. I don't dislike Forge because it's bad in and of itself. I dislike Forge and the entire Forge crew because their policies are so absolutely abhorrent that they make me feel sick. That doesn't keep me from using Forge when I want to play with a mod that requires it, but it does make me feel obligated to take FlowerChild's side when there's an argument on the Internet about it. BTW doesn't steal mods.

Alright, I see your point.