Book club/Discussion

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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by Prototype » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:03 am

Saravanth wrote:Warhammer 40k.
Starship Troopers, if you want to know where all the OP space marine stuff came from.

Also The moon is a harsh mistress by Robert Heinlein (or however you spell it)

my copy has the cover printed upside down so it looks like I'm holding the book upside down.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by CMA » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:43 am

@Anti-Meaning brigade: Sure, nothing wrong with that. However, when you write, you always put a piece of yourself into your reading, and it's sometimes more effective to convey philosophical meaning through a novel or a poem than it is with borderline-mathematical hard philosophy. Which do you find the most meaning in:

I answer that, There must needs be something voluntary in human acts. In order to make this clear, we must take note that the principle of some acts or movements is within the agent, or that which is moved; whereas the principle of some movements or acts is outside. For when a stone is moved upwards, the principle of this movement is outside the stone: whereas when it is moved downwards, the principle of this movement is in the stone. Now of those things that are moved by an intrinsic principle, some move themselves, some not. For since every agent or thing moved, acts or is moved for an end, as stated above (Question 1, Article 2); those are perfectly moved by an intrinsic principle, whose intrinsic principle is one not only of movement but of movement for an end. Now in order for a thing to be done for an end, some knowledge of the end is necessary. Therefore, whatever so acts or is moved by an intrinsic principle, that it has some knowledge of the end, has within itself the principle of its act, so that it not only acts, but acts for an end. On the other hand, if a thing has no knowledge of the end, even though it have an intrinsic principle of action or movement, nevertheless the principle of acting or being moved for an end is not in that thing, but in something else, by which the principle of its action towards an end is not in that thing, but in something else, by which the principle of its action towards an end is imprinted on it. Wherefore such like things are not said to move themselves, but to be moved by others. But those things which have a knowledge of the end are said to move themselves because there is in them a principle by which they not only act but also act for an end. And consequently, since both are from an intrinsic principle, to wit, that they act and that they act for an end, the movements of such things are said to be voluntary: for the word "voluntary" implies that their movements and acts are from their own inclination. Hence it is that, according to the definitions of Aristotle, Gregory of Nyssa, and Damascene [See Objection 1, the voluntary is defined not only as having "a principle within" the agent, but also as implying "knowledge." Therefore, since man especially knows the end of his work, and moves himself, in his acts especially is the voluntary to be found.


There's a certain slant of light,
On winter afternoons,
That oppresses, like the weight
Of cathedral tunes.

Heavenly hurt it gives us;
We can find no scar,
But internal difference
Where the meanings are.

None may teach it anything,
'Tis the seal, despair,-
An imperial affliction
Sent us of the air.

When it comes, the landscape listens,
Shadows hold their breath;
When it goes, 't is like the distance
On the look of death.

Well, I actually find more meaning in the first, but the second is probably more enjoyable.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by CMA » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:44 am

Prototype wrote:
Saravanth wrote:Warhammer 40k.
Starship Troopers, if you want to know where all the OP space marine stuff came from.

Also The moon is a harsh mistress by Robert Heinlein (or however you spell it)

my copy has the cover printed upside down so it looks like I'm holding the book upside down.
MHM would be good, and Starship Troopers was the second sci-fi book I read as a kid, the first one was also by Heinlein. Hell, either would be good.
Tell wrote:I'm in a book club at my school and we often get books from publishers before they are released to the public to do reviews on them. Anyways one such book I had the privilege of reading back last year in June is called Steelheart. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17182126-steelheart
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Ten years ago, Calamity came. It was a burst in the sky that gave ordinary men and women extraordinary powers. The awed public started calling them Epics.

But Epics are no friend of man. With incredible gifts came the desire to rule. And to rule man you must crush his wills.

Nobody fights the Epics... nobody but the Reckoners. A shadowy group of ordinary humans, they spend their lives studying Epics, finding their weaknesses, and then assassinating them.

And David wants in. He wants Steelheart—the Epic who is said to be invincible. The Epic who killed David's father. For years, like the Reckoners, David's been studying, and planning—and he has something they need. Not an object, but an experience.

He's seen Steelheart bleed. And he wants revenge.
That's pretty cool, are the new books any good?
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by ACH0225 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:54 pm

So is Thus spoke Zatharusa not even being considered? Is neitzch too deep?
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by CMA » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:43 pm

ACH0225 wrote:So is Thus spoke Zatharusa not even being considered? Is neitzch too deep?
Never heard of it, and google isn't giving me answers. What is it? Also, if Nietzsche is anything like Hegel(pretty sure he is) I'll be laughing my LMAO ass off reading him.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by Tau » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:56 pm

CMA wrote:...laughing my LMAO ass off reading him.
Rest in RIP in peace, then.

OT: The Inheritance books ain't sci-fi by any means, but still good.
Also, Dark Tower.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by Chairman_Tiel » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:19 pm

I'm with the pleasure reading club, I think. Books that go so far into this concept of hiding things from the reader that they need to go back in and excavate with a toothbrush is irritating at best, downright confusing at worst. That aside, every story has to have a guiding theme. It can change throughout the course of the plot(s), but it has to be there for a work of writing to even be called such; otherwise you just have a bunch of scatterbrained ideals clumsily bumping into one another, or perhaps what amounts to a narrative documentary. You can certainly make a point of hinting at this theme throughout the book; in fact, that has a potential of being pretty interesting. However, it's when this is exaggerated that this becomes a problem. The Great Gatsby, for example, was absolute torture. On one hand you have this relatively simple and uninteresting story about a ticket salesman who gets entangled with a romantic affair, but once you really look into every single detail...and that's what bugs me. You shouldn't have to figure out just what the hell 'THE BIRD WAS BLUE' means aside from indicating the color of its plumage to divulge the meaning of a novel.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by  ҉  » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:35 pm

Tiel wrote:The Great Gatsby, for example, was absolute torture. On one hand you have this relatively simple and uninteresting story about a ticket salesman who gets entangled with a romantic affair
Nick Carraway was in the bond business. The Great Gatsby ended by literally telling you the answers, though. On the second(?) to last page it says something like "I see now that this has always been a story of the West" and then talks about how "We were all Westerners, and perhaps we shared some fundamental defect that made us unsuitable to Eastern life" and makes whatever paper you inevitably have to write about it really easy. Catcher in the Rye is much worse IMO, and not least because it feels much more dated and Holden's voice is obnoxious to read.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by Chairman_Tiel » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:18 pm

Mistake Not... wrote:
Tiel wrote:The Great Gatsby, for example, was absolute torture. On one hand you have this relatively simple and uninteresting story about a ticket salesman who gets entangled with a romantic affair
Nick Carraway was in the bond business. The Great Gatsby ended by literally telling you the answers, though. On the second(?) to last page it says something like "I see now that this has always been a story of the West" and then talks about how "We were all Westerners, and perhaps we shared some fundamental defect that made us unsuitable to Eastern life" and makes whatever paper you inevitably have to write about it really easy. Catcher in the Rye is much worse IMO, and not least because it feels much more dated and Holden's voice is obnoxious to read.
Same diff :tongue:

And the thing about that quote is that it's dumb. What is it, Nick saying he and his friends can never be azns? Wat?
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by ACH0225 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:37 pm

CMA wrote:
ACH0225 wrote:So is Thus spoke Zatharusa not even being considered? Is neitzch too deep?
Never heard of it, and google isn't giving me answers. What is it? Also, if Nietzsche is anything like Hegel(pretty sure he is) I'll be laughing my LMAO ass off reading him.

You poor poor bastard. You've got no idea.

Just so you know, he was the guy who made übermensch and the term "God is dead", along with a lot of the philosophical base of Nazism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

Edit- can't say the 3rd Reich word. He formed the basis of N-A-Z-I-S-M.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by CMA » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:13 pm

ACH0225 wrote:
CMA wrote:
ACH0225 wrote:So is Thus spoke Zatharusa not even being considered? Is neitzch too deep?
Never heard of it, and google isn't giving me answers. What is it? Also, if Nietzsche is anything like Hegel(pretty sure he is) I'll be laughing my LMAO ass off reading him.

You poor poor bastard. You've got no idea.

Just so you know, he was the guy who made übermensch and the term "God is dead", along with a lot of the philosophical base of Nazism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

Edit- can't say the 3rd Reich word. He formed the basis of N-A-Z-I-S-M.
Oh, I know, my philosophy teacher had a grand old time(why am I talking like this?) telling us about it. Hegel also influenced Marx heavily, it's funny to think that Communism and National Socialism sprung from the same root.

Tiel wrote:I'm with the pleasure reading club, I think. Books that go so far into this concept of hiding things from the reader that they need to go back in and excavate with a toothbrush is irritating at best, downright confusing at worst. That aside, every story has to have a guiding theme. It can change throughout the course of the plot(s), but it has to be there for a work of writing to even be called such; otherwise you just have a bunch of scatterbrained ideals clumsily bumping into one another, or perhaps what amounts to a narrative documentary. You can certainly make a point of hinting at this theme throughout the book; in fact, that has a potential of being pretty interesting. However, it's when this is exaggerated that this becomes a problem. The Great Gatsby, for example, was absolute torture. On one hand you have this relatively simple and uninteresting story about a ticket salesman who gets entangled with a romantic affair, but once you really look into every single detail...and that's what bugs me. You shouldn't have to figure out just what the hell 'THE BIRD WAS BLUE' means aside from indicating the color of its plumage to divulge the meaning of a novel.
Nah, that's not what I mean. I mean something that is 1) fun to read(important part) and b) actually conveys a concept or idea. Never read the Great Gatsby, sounds like shit. Has anyone ever read The Brother's Karamazov?
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by cats » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:05 am

Dune
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by Error » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:41 am

Solar Clipper is good, if rather... dry. Scientifically fairly reasonable, though, for sci-fi.

Alternatively, you could just go read Discworld if you don't mind fantasy (and a DELUGE of puns).
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by  ҉  » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:01 am

Whoo, Discworld! TEH BESTEST SERIEZ EVAR! I've read all of them three or four times. Some of them are better than others, though. There aren't that many puns, although I started Discworld immediately after the Xanth series, and those are the most stupidly pun-dense books I've ever read. The early books in that series are OK, but after sixteen or so I realized I didn't care what was happening to the characters anymore.

Is that Solar Clipper Trader Tales? If so they're OK, although IIRC all but the first two were released only as podcasts or something like that.
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Re: Book club/Discussion

Post by Error » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:07 am

I have onlt the first two SCTTs as ebooks, so that fits.

And if you know where to look (I do, sorta) Discworld exists pretty much so Pratchett can go full pungeon master on the thing. It's amusing.
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