Engines, speed and movement

[ACH0225]

We can't accelerate to FTl. There is a barrier to stop that, whether a practical barrier or a hard barrier, there is one. This is why we have jump gates.

[Iv121]

you try to measure speed with acceleration (Yes that is exactly what you do because ships move at speeds and not at accelerations and the questions you ask is which ship is faster and not which one accelerates faster)

No I don't. I measure acceleration with acceleration. Measuring speed with acceleration makes only marginally more sense than measuring weight with temperature. If you ask which ship is faster, the answer would be the one that accelerates faster, because it gains higher speeds more quickly.

You know how I'm gonna break your argument ?

V1 = 20 m/s A1 = 2 m/s^2
V2 = 0 m/s A2 = 4 m/s^2
T = 2s

V1final = v1 + T * A1 = 24 m/s
V2final = v2 + T * A2 = 8 m/s

V1final > V2final

simple math, the ship with bigger acceleration is slower than the ship with smaller acceleration, your argument is invalid. That just shows how impractical that approach is. You can bring it to a vote or let frost decide. I believe what I showed here is convincing enough to convey my point, whether you accept it or not is your problem, but that was enough to convince the audience.

[Professor Fenway]

For one, you aren't starting with the same starting speed. Which means your calculations are skewed in YOUR favor.

Lets take it further, shall we?

Vf=Vi+AT

Ship A
Vf=20+2*2

Vf= 24 m/s
Ship B
Vf=0+2*4
Vf=8 m/s

So we have that down, that yes, when your STARTING SPEED is greater, ship is faster at the time. A car going 20 mph and accelerating at 2mph/s is faster than a still car accelerating at 4 mph/s, that's what you proved.

LETS INCREASE TIME TO 20 SECONDS
Ship A
Vf=20+2*20

Vf=60 m/s

Ship B
Vf=0+4*20
Vf=80 m/s

V2 Final> V1 Final

See? EVEN if we plug in distance with this, Ship B will overtake Ship A, therefore Ship B is faster.

Your argument is invalid.

EDIT: Actually, let's look at distance too. 20 seconds.

Displacement X= ViT+1/2*AT^2
Ship A
DX=20*20+1*20^2
Dx= 800 M

Ship B
Dx=0*20+2*20^2
Dx= 800

See? They went the SAME DISTANCE in 20 seconds, and since ship B has more acceleration and speed at this moment in time, it will overtake it.

I proved YOU wrong with simple math.

[Iv121]

No you can't, what I said is fact, he said ship 2 is faster because it has bigger acceleration, I showed him a calculation that clearly shows otherwise. It's a fact so here you can give up V1 > V2, you can recalculate it 100 times and you will get the same result, and as you know in math you need to prove that all cases are valid to prove a statement is valid, but you need only one opposite example to prove a statement is wrong. It's a dead end mate , this time I caught you hard.

[Prototype]

The ship with the faster acceleration will reach a certain speed in less time than a ship with lower acceleration.

[҉]

No you can't, what I said is fact, he said ship 2 is faster because it has bigger acceleration, I showed him a calculation that clearly shows otherwise. It's a fact so here you can give up V1 > V2, you can recalculate it 100 times and you will get the same result, and as you know in math you need to prove that all cases are valid to prove a statement is valid, but you need only one opposite example to prove a statement is wrong. It's a dead end mate , this time I caught you hard.

A large part of the problem that we have here is that you argue in an incredibly insulting manner. Do please stop that.

Look. Here's an equally valid example. I've got two cars, a Ferrari and a Prius. The Ferrari has a top speed of two hundred kilometers per hour, and the Prius has a top speed of forty kilometers per hour. The Ferrari is driving at 20 kilometers per hour, and the Prius is driving at 30 kilometers per hour. The Prius is, in this case, faster. Is that stupid? Of course it is. So is yours. They're equally valid and equally wrong. No-one has been 'caught hard' here, but you've made yourself look like an idiot in front of everyone.

[Professor Fenway]

Do you even math? Look at mine. By changing the time, I proved an opposite example.

Your calculation is TRUE, I never said it was false. I said your CONCLUSION was false. And I used my own math to prove the conclusion false, not the calculation.

[Keon]

Yaddah yaddah quack quack.

I want math. Ship design shouldn't be easy. Do you want this to be another FTB with a block for everything? "Oh, I need a farm!" "BUild this block!"

[Iv121]

Ah man you say I conduct myself in insulting matter ? You just said I'm an idiot (Or at least that I "try to make myself an idiot in front of everyone" ), c’mon that is really not nice considering I must protect my opinion against you both... And yes if that car goes 1 km/h it IS slower as its speed is ACTUALLY lower, it's a fact. On the other hand acceleration did not help you to determine what is faster and will never help you. Any more questions ?

Ah you all gonna argue just like you argued about so much stuff and eventually pick my method -.- , most of the time you take trends and combine them with the old tradition to constantly argue with me (Yep, as much as I like arguing with you you also like arguig with me ...) so eventually when it all cools down you forget about that trend. I can even tell you where did this trend come from - ironically from my own idea. I suggested adding mass to prevent adding too much blocks but for the easiness and user friendliness I always proposed to make it effect top speed because eventually that is what you compare. When someone tried to argue against that idea you reminded him that mass effects acceleration and here we go, from that thing it all began . It's all nice you go for realism, don't forget to delete all sounds as there are no sounds in space and probably pitch black ... so let's just remove graphics and ... make it text based or something . Prob the most realism you will get because eventually all future space battles will be so fast a normal human cannot react to so it will all be down to texts appearing on the screen "Would you like to attack that ship ? "

[ACH0225]

If all ships are operate by humans, then no one would use computers to do it faster because that would dispose of the usefulness of a "captain" social class. Also, please try to keep the discussion on the topic, not each other.

I feel like acceleration should be defined by mass, as it takes more force or longer time to move a more massive object, while maximum speed should be defined by engine tier.

[Prototype]

Ok, how about in space things accelerate in a linear manner, but this acceleration is determined by the mass and the force of the engine, so acceleration would be like the first graph I posted.

However, when you go down to a planet, your speed becomes limited (air resistance and such, also it stops you from whizzig around planets at ridiculous and dangerous speeds) and you're acceleration becomes like the second graph due to the introduction of a resistance force.

[Professor Fenway]

I am supporting of linear acceleration up to a certain speed, say 25% speed of light. How fast you get there is another matter.

And Iv, you have very faulty logic. A ship going 1 m/s compared to one going 20 m/s is still, yes. But if ship A can accelerate at 10 m/s/s, and ship B can accelerate at 1 m/s/s, then ship A will, EVEN WITH a starting speed advantage, will overtake Ship B at a MUCH HIGHER VELOCITY than ship A. Refer to my calculations. You cannot argue with math. In case you didn't see them, I will post them here;

Ship A
Vf=20+2*20

Vf=60 m/s

Ship B
Vf=0+4*20
Vf=80 m/s

V2 Final> V1 Final

See? EVEN if we plug in distance with this, Ship B will overtake Ship A, therefore Ship B is faster.

Your argument is invalid.

EDIT: Actually, let's look at distance too. 20 seconds.

Displacement X= ViT+1/2*AT^2
Ship A
DX=20*20+1*20^2
Dx= 800 M

Ship B
Dx=0*20+2*20^2
Dx= 800

[Iv121]

Well, A1 > A2 , V1 < V2 while you claim V2 > V1 , it needs only one case to prove something is invalid and proving all cases are correct to prove something is valid. In the meantime if V1 > V2 yes V1 is faster, if something is faster it is faster and unlike acceleration there cannot be V1 > V2 while V1 < V2 .

[Prototype]

I don't really know what you lot are arguing about, but I'm going to put this anyway:

Two ships start from the same position, both with a velocity of 0
S= distance, U= initial velocity, V= final velocity, A= acceleration, T= time
Ship A:
U=0 ms^-1
A= 3 ms^-2
T= 10 s

V= U+AT= 30 ms^-1

So S= (U+V)/2 x T = 150
Ship A travels 150 m in 10 seconds

Ship B has a lower acceleration:
U= 0 ms^-1
A= 2 ms^-2
T= 10 s

V= U + AT = 20

S= (0+20)/2 x T= 100 m

So the ship with the higher acceleration travels further in the same amount of time, but this should be obvious.

Feel free to re-do these with different values, I just though I would put these in a traditional SUVAT to make ire everyone is on the right page here.

[Iv121]

I explain again - As always in order to prove a case is invalid you need only one example that shows the opposite, I brought it, as simple as that. It doesn't stop there as eventually you all the time ask "which ship is faster which ship is faster ?" , well I'll tell you which ship's faster - the one with the bigger velocity, as simple as that.

Let's conclude - as I showed you above acceleration tells us nothing about which ship is faster. I can bring you countless examples like that when the starting speed is lower than that one of the other ship, but if velocity 1 > velocity 2 it's a fact, you can't deny it and it clearly gives you an idea which ship is faster - ship 1 in our case.