THE NEW SOVIET UNON

[҉]

If this is just a discussion of political/economic philosophies, it should probably be in the Member's Lounge. I think this would be the first time anything has ever had to be moved out of the RP section.

[Ivan2006]

So, back on topic. I think the NSU is supposed to combine democracy with the original idea of communism: That laws should keep single people from achieving largely over-average power and/or wealth.
If they succeed, they might manage to become one of the most ethical factions out there. The original USSR was a try of achieving that goal, but it horribly failed and ended up in a dictatorship.
EE support here, as a similar system has been developed in the EE with high success. We don´t have a lower class, because everyone has access to education allowing for middle-class jobs while the typical lower-class jobs are done by robots.
Also, noone gets exploited (sorry if that word just made no sense. It´s the best google translater could come up with), as most of the economy is in the hand of the government which has direct control on the wage.
This system also allows for the government of the EE to finance their projects more easily.

[Iv121]

As I said as long as money doesn't grow on trees it won't help em - you need money to give to the people. Communism makes everyone equally poor otherwise.

[Ivan2006]

Well, that´s the point.
It´s difficult to make communism work on a large scale.
The main problem is that if people get the same ammount of money regardless of their job, they are no longer motivated to do difficult education for better jobs, as the jobs they don´t need that education for is equally good.
The difficulty is to encourage people another way. If the NSU achieves that, they win. If they don´t, they will slip into either a horrible place with bad education and everyone being a factory worker or something along those lines or stalinism where noone is allowed to do anything and your job is choosen by the government.

[Ivan2006]

Yes, that could work. It is just difficult to do that on a national scale, as it is more difficult to get people to work together as the ammount of people grows, creating the danger of the nation shattering into many small pieces.
Also, that solution makes trade with other factions very difficult.

Conclusion: It is possible, but very difficult to make a working communist society. Let´s see how this faction handles it before we judge anything.

[Iv121]

It's impossible, as real life examples show. The stuff in the Kibbutz also didn't belong to anyone , that didn't help the fact the movement fell apart. It just doesn't work, just like Capitalism, we are yet to invent something that works ... maybe one day.

[Ivan2006]

Well, something between pure capitalism and communism seems to work best. (hint: the stuff we use in europe IRL)
How about private companies that get limitations on how to treat their employees and the gov providing several services to the people. Like public health insurance. You know, the stuff Obama is trying to do in the US.
Honestly, the problem I think there is in the US is that many people set their freedom above any other right and thus prevent themselves from getting the other rights properly.

[Iv121]

Nop, what you use in Europe ATM also failed, have a look at Greece Cyprus and other stuff. The "Works best" thing is between what you have in Europe and pure American Capitalism, and even this is not perfect and a hard balance to find. Don't get the illusion that everything is fine if you live in a high income European country (You are about to feel the same once enough Muslim immigrants settled down there) ... The problem there again is that money doesn't grow on trees. In order to give money you must first have it, Greece didn't have it, nor does Cyprus, other countries in the Euro zone are also in a similar situe ...

[Ivan2006]

You do realize that nothing will work without a good economy?
As a fact, there hasn´t been found a single way of government that works properly.
Look at Austria. Totally fine. But only on the first look.
Politicians seem to be doing with the tax money whatever they want without thinking.
We just recently made a law that politicians mustn´t use tax money for bets...

[Iv121]

BTW a notable fact is that the social-democratic system is based on an assumption that there are more contributors than parasites (aka more working class that doesn't need help and less weak, old and generally people who don't want to work) and also that there is enough money in the first place. Greece didn't have the money in the first place while Europe is soon going to discover it has more parasites than contributors - I'm not even talking about the immigrants - It's no secret that Europe dies as you bring less and less children to the world - That means that there are more and more weak and old people that need help and less and less working class. Now you are welcome to add the immigrants and we shall all cry together, but hey the picture is not that grim:

One new immigrant in Germany gets his own apartment and subsidies. He goes outside and talks to a man he sees "Thank you Germans for accepting me and giving me all I own". The man looked at him and answered "Oh saarih man I'm Algerian ". He goes on to another person "Thank you Germans for giving me all I own and letting me live with you" "Ah Im from Morocco". He keeps going and going until he asks one man "Can you tell me where are all the Germans ?" "What's the time ?" the man looks and answers "11 O'clock" "Ah the Germans are all at work"
So the good part in all of this is that you can make jokes about it .

[Ivan2006]

Well, in Austria we actually need the immigrants.
In fact, we´dbe dieing if not for immigrants, just not enough births...
In fact, most immigrants adapt very well.
In my class at school, about half of my classmated are immigrants.
You don´t notice with most. (except the three who are in Austria for only about a year and still have problems with the language, but they´re learning fast)
And yes, the problem with too many old people is well known. I think.
Problem is that noone really has any idea what to do about it...
In fact, most immigrants are in working age or below and thus even improve the situation in Austria.
Anyway, I think the faction thread of someone is the wrong place for a discussion about politics...

[Iv121]

Are we talking about different immigrants ? Or you live far away from the ones I talk about ? (Probably yes because if they go to school in the first place they are part of those willing to contribute) Actually there is a whole program that went in Israeli TV about this problem with one journalist pretending to be a Muslim journalist and goes to speak to the immigrants (in Arabic OFC , I bet he would end up bad if it turns out he's Israeli ). He basically shows pretty accurately their life and the people around them from inside.

[Ivan2006]

Well, then they are definetly not the same immigrants.
In fact, it´s rather difficult to get an immigration place in Austria.
If you don´t even try to immigrate, you´re as good as thrown out.

[Iv121]

Well it's rather easy to immigrate to Europe and as far as I know once you have European citizenship it's much easier to get other European ones , but again why would immigrants do it. Plus because it's quite easy to say you're a war refugee especially in our area which means that by some idiotic UN agreements you must offer them refuge. An interesting fact - Refugees are considered only the first generation to those who suffered from war. Under a special resolution that was passed in the UN only Palestinian refugees are considered refugees with no generation limit ...