FC Forums

Keon wrote:

catsonmeth wrote:

Keon wrote:
I don't really understand how a * could be a * if they were in highsec. PVP isn't allowed except for duels. I also don't see how players could cheat the system or become superfarmed and going on a killing spree. Could you explain how that would happen? Basically, the way I see it, having security status pretty much allows 3 universes, but allows players to immigrate between servers.

Because the * could build a huge navy, then migrate to another, less secure nation and * them.

No, because the less secure nation would have more materials. That is a valid point though, we need to avoid making either side horribly OP. Again, this is low priority stuff.

The easiest ways to do that is to not restrict anything or separate the two. Or, instead of having one or two universes, we have a lot of smaller sets of servers grouped by size. That would prevent crashes and imbalances.

I'm in favor of the idea of having a configurable 'security' modifier set on server startup that dictates the extent of the presence of non-aligned patrol ships that attack people with demerits. Demerits are accrued by staging unprovoked attacks on ships unless the victim vessel is owned or operated by a faction the aggressor has a declared war with. (NPC pirates would naturally be auto-enemied with everyone and be attacked by these security ships on sight) If that's the case the cops just don't give a hoot. If not the amount of dems controls how many ships are spawned for little old you.

While relentless dykes are pretty soundly defeated in this fashion, with that caveat people could still just do the same thing and steamroll people who don't want to PVP. I'd say have two, maybe three stages of conflict for factions then. Aggression, which is a declaration of 'heywedon'tfreakinglikeyou' that cuts down demerits earned in unprovoked attacks by, say 30% on the target, and War, which is basically the other side saying 'hey, ***k you too guy!' and eliminates gaining demerits for attacks entirely until the two warring sides come to an agreement.

So if these non-PvP weirdos don't want to, well, PvP, they always have the option of just flitting around and waiting for the patrol ships to take care of the enemy. Conversely, the enemy does have the ability to antagonize the rubes if they're sly about it and provoke them to declare war in turn.

inb4 someone brings up people that aren't in a faction, as I said in Skype the other day, the game shouldn't have to bend over to accommodate them. People who attack them get demerits, when they attack people in turn, they get demerits, since there's no way for them to declare war. Good for peaceful merchant, explorer, and maybe pirate, but bad for anything else.

That still leaves another problem. If hi-sec lets people get what amounts to free protection, why would anyone willfully make what they're hosting lo-sec? Well, first off, if you're some warlike fiend you're going to come home with a crapload of patrol ships waiting for you on a hi-sec. Those demerits, you know. You should be able to pay them off with whatever currency we decide on, but it should be costly enough to not be a sustainable solution. Therefore, lo-sec are basically the anarchy servers of Minecraft's heyday - hives of scum and villainy that let you do what you want; an ideal place for a pirate base or what have you. NPC pirates also will be a much smaller factor; being present in much smaller numbers than hi-sec and only aggro'ing if shot at first. On top of that, lo-sec servers could also have a penchant for generating more asteroids, meaning more minerals to bring home. It's a risk/reward system that I think people wouldn't turn their nose up at.

Alsoshipsystemshouldbereleasedseparatelyasastandalonemodforallthosecreativerubessotheonesthatgetinactuallyhavesomeinterestinfighting.

Keon wrote:

Saravanth wrote:Such restrictions would allow * servers to just hide inside their highsec servers, which is why I don't like this. The reason for two seperate universes for those two types of gameplay would simply be to not allow players to cheat. It wouldn't make servers less populated than they'd already be, that loss would be nothing more than no superfarmed idiots going on an intergalactic killing spree after weeks of hermitage. The PvE sissies and PvP players should never come in contact at all, it'd be unfair for both parties.

I don't really understand how a * could be a * if they were in highsec. PVP isn't allowed except for duels. I also don't see how players could cheat the system or become superfarmed and going on a killing spree. Could you explain how that would happen? Basically, the way I see it, having security status pretty much allows 3 universes, but allows players to immigrate between servers.

While they have that free protection, they could just farm all the materials needed for an overpowered fleet without fearing anyone disturbing them at it, without any time pressure. After a month or so they would just strike out of nowhere, and even if you do know about their preparations, your attacks would be so futile as you'd be stopped by NPC-policemen protecting those brats for nothing. There wouldn't be as much conficts between players/factions, as more a game of fighting big daddy-ish guards who don't cost the target anything at all for just scratching them. * basically consist out of such cowards, and they'd just all farm inside their cozy hisecs until they'd get to that point.

Such * would be less nations than rogue/pirate bonds and outlaw nests. They shouldn't have anyone guarding them but themselves. As would anyone else. Realistically, only civilised space is actually guarded by some kind of police, and that would be the territory of serious empires. Which should have got enough resources at that point to produce a police fleet with npcs patrolling its space and protecting its members anyway.

Nobody deserves free protection just like that. If they aren't part of a faction, they are expected to be able to watch over themselves. And if they simply can't, they need the protection the big fishes can offer them. From the end of the early-game, many devices and techs should require to be manned by players to function (or NPCs as replacement, although with decreased efficiency) (I'm thinking about some kind of minigames or the like), encouraging factions and groups to employ more members. That way, everyone can work for the common good, in exchange for safety. Such nations would be less likely to be *, as their main goal would probably be to advance or expand, not to bully other ones, but assimilating them.
They deserve protection, and they are more than capable of taking care of that themselves. It wouldn't matter if they are in high or low sec, once they reached a certain point of players.

Also, to speak out, I am against NPC pirates. Player pirate factions could make/steal ships, which they could man with NPCs to go plunder, yes, but they would also just naturally form and be in time, along with the empires. Having the players do, decide and control everything themselves will result in a natural galactic society, automatically forming niches for every activity that's demanded or wanted by players. Pirates will be a natural thing, Empires will be a natural thing, lone wolves will be a natural thing, the whole galaxy will evolve by itself, from basic vanilla stone age to societies in which macropolises and personal spaceships will be a common thing.

As much as I'm against the whole hi/lowsec system. Resources should be determined by planet types, and protected through environmental hazards like extremely dangerous weather. Patrolling ships/NPC pirates may make a little sense from a gameplay perspective, but if a place is worth plundering, there just will players happen to try their luck. No need at all for NPC-factions.

We should have both PvP and PvE, and people who don't like it can not play, or suck it up and deal with it IMO

The higher security status an owners sets their system at, the lower the commonality of high tier resources. So * has to lower their security status, or use crappy ships and get curbstomped by carebearnation.

Yes, there are issues, but this will prevent * heading into lowsec, raiding, then returning to hisec. If they try, they will be facing enemies who had much better resource pools than they did. If * wins anyway, * wins anyway, and carebearnation v2 can come and stomp them. Or whatever.

What would also prevent * from raiding low techs would be NOT YET BUILT portals! Carebarenation shouldn't exist at all. Server owners shouldn't have any influence on their system by itself. That would fall under terrain generation, and like Tiel said in that picture of his in that other thread, that's out of the question. For good reason. If temperature and such things get added, they should maybe be able to choose from a pool of starting planets (Rather cold, desert/savannaish, jungle-ish, such things) to add variety to even the early game, but that would be all they should be able to do. NPCs and carebears simply should not have anything to do with resouce pools (or exist at all imo -.- if I didn't make myself clear yet), but the conditions of the planets should. A volcanic world would be overflowing with resources, but dangerous, fatal weather like burning ash storms or volcanic eruptions every few minutes would make it only accessable with very advanced technology, and even that only with massive preparation, really harvesting even more so. That would be more than enough for kind of "balancing" resources.

A bit off topic, can we stop pinning every topic I make/unpin the old topics/move the old topics to stage 2?

Wasn't me. Want me to move it to phase 3?

It is phase 3. What I'm saying is every topic I post seems to get pinned. If this keeps up, we'll have the entire forum pinned and new topics won't get seen. Can we unpin old topics once they are done?