Engines, speed and movement

[Iv121]

This is the thread where the issues of engine speed limitations was discussed.

So far the following conclusions where made:

1. For each ship an overall mass will be calculated which will reduce the specific vessel's speed.
2. The speed of ships will be determined by calculations made with the top speed given by the specific engine. The speed will be reduced depending on the mass. For easiness of calculation each tier has a certain value of mass being ignored before speed is reduced.
3. It is yet to be determined how speed will be handled in relation to other objects in space.




Well I never intended to go heavy on math and stuff. Just in order to imitate that acceleration we can simply lower the speed limit for heavier ships.

[Prototype]

Or give bigger ships a bigger resistance force, which would do the same thing.

[Chairman_Tiel]

I suggest you look at the thread joykler mentioned. Unless I'm terribly mistaken dynamic acceleration and anything involving per-block data was given a negatori by fr0st.

[Iv121]

Well again it is not what I suggest. I simply suggest to calculate ONCE (Yea only ONCE in the whole time of the universe existence simply because there is only one ship of that type until it gets blown up in the world ) the mass and by it LIMIT the top speed, just like the top speed is limited by the engine size. This way people can't build borg cubes and need to go for more creative and possibly better looking design.

[Chairman_Tiel]

Well again it is not what I suggest. I simply suggest to calculate ONCE (Yea only ONCE in the whole time of the universe existence simply because there is only one ship of that type until it get's blown up in the world ) the mass and by it LIMIT the top speed, just like the top speed is limited by the engine size. This way people can't build borg cubes and need to go for more creative and possibly better looking design.

This would mean you can't add on to your ship, or could upgrade to a Borg cube without suffering an acceleration hit. What I'm saying, to clarify, is that if we have the core system agreed upon by everyone on the old forum also dictate what types of engines you can mount, speed will correlate with classification without dealing in any of this.

@ Prototype

We all know those threads die within three replies, or just end up getting derailed onto completely different subject matter. It'd be better to just keep it all in this thread.

[Prototype]

Ok then, keep it here, when it reaches a useful conclusion, then split it off.


Also, calculating max speed from mass, engine power and reststance force is one calculation.

a Borg cube wouldn't have much advantage over a normal space ship of the same size and power, in this scenario.

And how does the computer idea directly relate to this?

[Iv121]

@Tiel you can do such things only on a shipyard, which means you crate a new ship and so the calculation will commence again, you can't avoid it and for god's sake if you can do it with such ease in a few lines of code why the hell not ? it adds so much depth to the game...

[Chairman_Tiel]

No, I was under the impression you could add blocks anywhere you wanted, like Zeppelin. That's what makes space stations possible.

I don't see how calculating acceleration based on mass adds anything meaningful to gameplay when class-based engines can achieve the same effect and with less complications and overhead.

[҉]

I thought you were going to have to have construction bots or something to build a space station. Modifying your ship on the fly (if you what I did there) seems like a bad idea.

[Crash Override]

No, I was under the impression you could add blocks anywhere you wanted, like Zeppelin. That's what makes space stations possible.

I don't see how calculating acceleration based on mass adds anything meaningful to gameplay when class-based engines can achieve the same effect and with less complications and overhead.

Its add a lot. Space games mean realistic calculations.

Not that im talking about simulation,but this mass thing is a good idea for me

If not,every frigate will have the same speed. You make a ferrari that has the same speed as a buggy based in the engine that it uses.

[Prototype]

It is a quite simple calculation.

It would be A= P-(VR), with A being acceleration, P being engine output, M being mass (or number of blocks) and V being your velocity, and R as resistance, so as you get faster, your acceleration gets lower, until the resistance is equal to power output, where acceleration is 0, and you are at top speed.

And while it may not add anything to the gameplay, it is a way it can work and work well.

[joykler]

computer takes over the whole core concept
and then you would also be depending on your computer in terms of speed

because the computer has to process everything and give the appropriate speed

[Chairman_Tiel]

No, I was under the impression you could add blocks anywhere you wanted, like Zeppelin. That's what makes space stations possible.

I don't see how calculating acceleration based on mass adds anything meaningful to gameplay when class-based engines can achieve the same effect and with less complications and overhead.

Its add a lot. Space games mean realistic calculations.

I've yet to see a space game with realistic calculations that isn't just to cater to a niche audience.

If not,every frigate will have the same speed. You make a ferrari that has the same speed as a buggy based in the engine that it uses.

Engine types. You have engine a, which has 20 acceleration, engine b, which has 15 acceleration, and engine c, which has 10 acceleration. Engine C takes up less space, meaning you can cram more weapons in, while engine a is the opposite; you sacrifice other capabilities for more speed.

The same effect is achieved without going through all this calculation nonsense. If people wanted that they'd play Scrumpleship, not Futurecraft.

@Jedi - That's been part of the plan for some time now, to my knowledge. It seems utterly asinine to not be able to place down a carpet on your spaceship while its in motion, that really defeats immersion.

It is a quite simple calculation.

It would be A= P-(VR), with A being acceleration, P being engine output, M being mass (or number of blocks) and V being your velocity, and R as resistance, so as you get faster, your acceleration gets lower, until the resistance is equal to power output, where acceleration is 0, and you are at top speed.

And while it may not add anything to the gameplay, it is a way it can work and work well.

I'm no coder, but I'm pretty sure it's not as simple as typing that formula in Eclipse and pressing 'Compile'.

[Prototype]

computer takes over the whole core concept
and then you would also be depending on your computer in terms of speed

because the computer has to process everything and give the appropriate speed

Not every system has to be computer controlled, but you could hook the engines up to a computer.

Also, Tiel, nothing we do will be hitting something in eclipse and hitting compile.

[Iv121]

It's not even about realistic calculations (they are far from real). I repeat the logic again Tiel, please pay attention this time:

Currently there is no limit to how many blocks of armor you place on your ship besides what you can afford. That means that fortifying a small 10x10 cube with 20x20 cube of armor is a valid possibility (as the number of blocks is not tied to the type of core. IF it is tied I don't think it should be like that as you limit user creativity and again go into the "how to divide ships" debate, instead the more energy the ship uses the bigger core it needs so eventually the cores can help you identify ships by the true factor - the firepower they have). In order to make you think twice where you actually put your armor you add mass to them so the more blocks you add the slower you go. This also means that lightly armored ships will fly better than heavily armored ones.

Also Tiel it is not too complicated to calculate the mass by simply scanning all the blocks in 3D array or something and adding the mass. As this calculation is made only once it is not taking too heavy toll on the system overall (although scanning that stuff is not such a light procedure)