Engines, speed and movement

[Prototype]

[Iv121]

When was the last time I used my moderator powers ? And don't accuse me in that pls, ever. For the matter I warned you that you might not have a better deal .

[Professor Fenway]

Iv, here's a compromise- Top speed is limited by the warp bubble idea fr0st has, and engines determine your acceleration. As such, when designing a ship, it will tell you how fast it accelerates. Acceleration determines how fast a ship reaches that speed. The HUD will tell you your current speed, which increases as you accelerate.

Iv, look up a game called Shores of Hazeron. They have the top speed being lightspeed, and that's for all ships. Look at it, try it, report. That's a sort of system we want.

[҉]

This probably belongs in the Phase 2 section.

[҉]

When was the last time I used my moderator powers ?

It was Friday, May 17, at 5:16 PM GMT.

[Iv121]

Iv, here's a compromise- Top speed is limited by the warp bubble idea fr0st has, and engines determine your acceleration. As such, when designing a ship, it will tell you how fast it accelerates. Acceleration determines how fast a ship reaches that speed. The HUD will tell you your current speed, which increases as you accelerate.

Iv, look up a game called Shores of Hazeron. They have the top speed being lightspeed, and that's for all ships. Look at it, try it, report. That's a sort of system we want.

Well it was already closed, frankly in my favor so no, besides now it's between you and frost , as soon as I move all of this I did my job, I'm out . I will have a look at the game (Prob from vids though). Eventually change in speed is acceleration so don't worry there will be it , just I believe there is no reason to change it apart from those 3 static acceleration values I was talking about that serve mostly aesthetic value - making heavy ships look ... well heavy.

[҉]

Iv, here's a compromise- Top speed is limited by the warp bubble idea fr0st has, and engines determine your acceleration. As such, when designing a ship, it will tell you how fast it accelerates. Acceleration determines how fast a ship reaches that speed. The HUD will tell you your current speed, which increases as you accelerate.

Iv, look up a game called Shores of Hazeron. They have the top speed being lightspeed, and that's for all ships. Look at it, try it, report. That's a sort of system we want.

Well it was already closed, frankly in my favor so no, besides now it's between you and frost , as soon as I move all of this I did my job, I'm out . I will have a look at the game (Prob from vids though). Eventually change in speed is acceleration so don't worry there will be it , just I believe there is no reason to change it apart from those 3 static acceleration values I was talking about that serve mostly aesthetic value - making heavy ships look ... well heavy.

Iv, what you just said was "I am a moderator, and I have declared that I won this debate, so I have". That, my friend, is bullshit.

[Iv121]

Well what did you want me to do ? ban him for what he said ? Have I ever banned anyone for ever saying something bad to me, hell the most I ever did was giving points for necro posting and locking a few angry threads, somehow I am afraid to go too far but there is a logic behind it - somehow the best methods are preventative ... I'm speaking bull**** now . Anyway LJS it was Frost's word, you know his word is holy simply because he is the one who does this mod, so your debate is with him. Again I never abused my powers and probably barely used them at all .

You really start to sound like our cousins though, I think it was around 2007 when they were proposed everything they ever wanted - retreating to the borders of 1967, giving them Jerusalem, releasing their prisoners , man our left winged prime minister was a true idiot at that time , luckily so were the Palestinians who in all their stupidity didn't accept it and now they are begging our right winged prime minister for even the slightest of those ...

The only reason I won this debate is because I saw where it ends. I suggested you an alternative fair for everyone , you refused.


EDIT: Tiel where's your comment gone ? I didn't touch it , hey I'm not going to ban you or anything for it...

[҉]

The only reason I won this debate is because I saw where it ends. I suggested you an alternative fair for everyone , you refused.

EDIT: Tiel where's your comment gone ? I didn't touch it , hey I'm not going to ban you or anything for it...

Tiel removed it himself. You would know this had you checked the moderator logs. You continue to insist that the debate is over and you won, apparently because you can move the thread and thus you are right. I say again: That is bullshit. You suggested an 'alternative' that favored yourself. If you expected me to agree with that, you are stupid.

[Iv121]

Alright now I do want to tell you that keeping going personal on me won't win you an argument. Frost is the one who ended this debate, if you have issues, go to him. It's about time I actually win all proper so don't ruin my moment .

BTW About frost you can try to convince him but following the logic you had ... I don't think it will work. Well it's not up to me to decide ...

[fr0stbyte124]

Everyone needs to stop bickering in this thread or I will assign the offending users the title: Being a Child.

The topic is controlling acceleration vs controlling top speed. Both have some serious issues in terms of active range and control. Top speed because nothing in the solar system is stationary, so wtf does top speed actually mean? Acceleration because kinetic energy can realistically stack indefinitely, and players won't be able to cope. We need to find a solution to both or we are screwed.

Fenway mentioned Shores of Hazeron as having a potential solution. Everybody go look if you have some spare time.

[Iv121]

Well Frost there is a reason why we humans use measurement units - on our scale their are absolute - 1 m/s is moving one meter of distance in a period of 1 second. It doesn't matter where are you - on Earth or in a middle of the empty space, it will still pass 1 m/s , moreover this value is not effected by the location of the vessel and only by its mass and the force the engine produces... I see no reason not to use those units in space, too. How you render it might be a different thing but for the user 1 m/s is 1 m/s wherever he is.

[fr0stbyte124]

Imagine you are in a space ship with a top speed of 20 m/s flying above a planet which is orbiting the sun at 10 m/s, when you are at your top speed you will appear to be moving at 10 m/s in the direction of the planet's motion or 30 m/s in the opposite direction. If your top speed was 5 m/s, then the planet would fly away from you, even if you were on it. In space, there is no such thing as an absolute velocity, it changes with the frame of reference and each one is equally correct.

Without a top speed you can accelerate as much as you need to match the velocity of another object, and once there, you can treat your velocity as zero and move freely in any direction. However, if we are doing this, then as you accelerate at full burn towards an object, you can only do so up to the half-way point. After that you would need to decelerate at full burn or you would fly right past the target. Realistic space games will be like this, but games with easy to fly ships never are, and players won't be expecting it. They are going to expect a consistent top speed, and the ability to stop in a fairly short distance. Since your velocity varies depending on the frame of reference, the only way we can do this without cheating is to make every object in space perfectly stationary, including planetary rotation.

Assuming we don't want moons and suns and space stations standing still in the sky, we have to cheat. I don't know how to cheat this yet.
It would be easy if piloting was handled by an AI, but with manual control, the all you can do is either screw with the physics, screw with the navigational instruments, or both. This is not a simple problem.

It's possible the warp bubbles may help on the troll physics front, but I doubt that alone can solve the problem.

[Iv121]

Well, considering how big space is I see no reason to add planet rotation - it will look perfectly the same from any direction. Again nothing to compare it to - maybe the sun appears in different locations but there is really no noticeable difference. As you do not actually travel between those gravity wells (it would be rather boring so you warp in instead) the location of those planets has no meaning. BTW if you want to make other planets visible you can simply add a fake planet that moves around that specific planet to make it look like they both move, similar to any standard skyboxes.

[Chairman_Tiel]

Well, considering how big space is I see no reason to add planet rotation - it will look perfectly the same from any direction. Again nothing to compare it to - maybe the sun appears in different locations but there is really no noticeable difference. As you do not actually travel between those gravity wells (it would be rather boring so you warp in instead) the location of those planets has no meaning.

You'll notice I used the exact same line of reasoning when arguing against mass-based speed. I agree, by the way, just keep in mind the last five our so pages of grade A s**tstorm wouldn't have even occurred should we have just went with tiered engines.