customizable ship systems

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CommanderKobialka
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customizable ship systems

Post by CommanderKobialka » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:38 pm

i think we should make it so that instead of a ship having a certain number of hp, how long a ship stays alive should depend on the survival of a ships systems. it ll comes down to where those systems are. are they in a large room with lots of windows or are they in a tight space in the ships center, surroundedd by thick walls and plates of armor? making it so that the player can choose where in the ship each of the support systems are located will add a ton of variety to a battle. you might have taken down a ship by burning lasers threw the hull and into the life support system but when another enemy joins the fiht, it will be up to you to scan that ship and figure where his life support system is. you wont be atacking the same spot on that ship as you were on the other ship.

how will this be done? let mw introduce a new item: the blueprint. if you are holding a blueprint to one of the systems in your hand, semi transparent representation of that system will pop up in front of you to show you how much space it will take up. simply right click when youve found the perfect spot and during the course of 10 minutes or so it will build itself.

this will allow simple noobs to take out vets with a bit of skill. instead of sitting still firing at eachother and quickly burning through a noobs hp, you will have to fire at certain parts of their ship oneat a time nd take out thier systems. this will require movement and give fihters much more of a purpose rather than fighting their own battle off to the sidend not really helping. this is how space battles work in the sstarwars battlefront franchise and it works really well.

okay. so there has to be a diference in dficulty when dealing with certain types of ships riht? thats what shield and armor upgrades are for. certain special abilities would be able to destroy things like this quicker. you can have a special abiliy that does one or the other but not both. we dont want the hp problem to come back in the form of shield and armor.

with this change, people will get hull bits ripped off but that can be fixed easily by adding a nanite system.

discuss and nominate if you feel like it. sorry for grammar and spelling mistakes. im typing this on a kindle.
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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:24 am

It's already been discussed at length. Ship life is sectionally HP based, and damage is generated procedurally and will vary based on the nature of the hit and the HP of the vessel. The reason for doing it this way is so that designers can focus on outward aesthetics and aren't tempted to game the system by making what we've been deeming, "Borg cubes". Instead we are compromising by making damage realistic, but the staying power of the ship is based on more manageable gaming abstractions.

There were some additional ideas which branched off of this, such as elaborating on the differences between hull armor and energy shielding damage and how different styles of fighting wil be balanced for this mechanism. Once joykler has finished indexing the discussions, I'll be able to tell you where that thread is located and we can avoid fragmenting the conversation even further.

Btw, what part of please don't put nomination polls in your topics wasn't clear? If we are doing this indexing venture it needs to remain unobstructive, or it will just end up becoming a hindrance to the actual discussion. The less meta-debate we have to deal with, the better off we'll be.

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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by joykler » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:07 am

but im fairly new thats why if you know older things you should nominate them
or some things from me ...

and no dont use the poll for nomination

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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:39 am

joykler wrote:but im fairly new thats why if you know older things you should nominate them
or some things from me ...
Oh yeah, I sort of forgot about that.
Fair enough, but let's start using the fancy new Notes subforum for nominations, then, rather than putting it in the actual threads. If nothing else, this way it should make it a lot easier to find and review things afterwards than if it was all mixed in together, which is precisely what got us into this mess in the first place.

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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by Dr. Mackeroth » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:39 am

fr0stbyte124 wrote:It's already been discussed at length. Ship life is sectionally HP based, and damage is generated procedurally and will vary based on the nature of the hit and the HP of the vessel. The reason for doing it this way is so that designers can focus on outward aesthetics and aren't tempted to game the system by making what we've been deeming, "Borg cubes". Instead we are compromising by making damage realistic, but the staying power of the ship is based on more manageable gaming abstractions.

There were some additional ideas which branched off of this, such as elaborating on the differences between hull armor and energy shielding damage and how different styles of fighting wil be balanced for this mechanism. Once joykler has finished indexing the discussions, I'll be able to tell you where that thread is located and we can avoid fragmenting the conversation even further.

Btw, what part of please don't put nomination polls in your topics wasn't clear? If we are doing this indexing venture it needs to remain unobstructive, or it will just end up becoming a hindrance to the actual discussion. The less meta-debate we have to deal with, the better off we'll be.
I still think having section based HP on a ship is an over-complication. Shields can have HP, fine, but if the ship needs to, it should be a block based thing. Too confusing otherwise.
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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:32 am

I can work with that, assuming we can still balance hull/armor with shields, which I think we discussed in the other thread.

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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by Dr. Mackeroth » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:14 am

fr0stbyte124 wrote:I can work with that, assuming we can still balance hull/armor with shields, which I think we discussed in the other thread.
I think a ship's "health" should ideally be 80% shields, 18% armor, and 2% hull. Mostly shields makes Borg Cubes wasteful, but adding armor still makes planning designs important.

Oh, and Fr0st, I like your new avatar.
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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by Ivan2006 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:10 am

Dr. Mackeroth wrote:
fr0stbyte124 wrote:I can work with that, assuming we can still balance hull/armor with shields, which I think we discussed in the other thread.
I think a ship's "health" should ideally be 80% shields, 18% armor, and 2% hull. Mostly shields makes Borg Cubes wasteful, but adding armor still makes planning designs important.

Oh, and Fr0st, I like your new avatar.
What is your definition of the difference of armor and hull?
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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:10 am

The way I'm imagining it, armor would work like storm shutters, something you put on top of the weak areas to soak up damage, and can be deployed or replaced. To balance this, deploying it would probably do things like reducing the effectiveness of scanners or decreasing mobility. Perhaps even whole parts of the ship could collapse inward to minimize exposed surface areas. Just throwing out ideas, here, but it would definitely be an active type of defense, rather than passive like hull plating.

The ideal scenario is if shield tanks and armor tanks were equally viable defenses, but one more or less negates the effectiveness of the other. Or if you could mix the two together and have weaker versions of both, or perhaps heavily armor part of the ship and heavily shield other parts. I don't know yet. The concept is still pretty fuzzy and it will depend a lot on how heavily ship design plays into all of it as to whether or not this will work.

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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by CommanderKobialka » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:10 pm

fr0stbyte124 wrote:It's already been discussed at length. Ship life is sectionally HP based, and damage is generated procedurally and will vary based on the nature of the hit and the HP of the vessel. The reason for doing it this way is so that designers can focus on outward aesthetics and aren't tempted to game the system by making what we've been deeming, "Borg cubes". Instead we are compromising by making damage realistic, but the staying power of the ship is based on more manageable gaming abstractions.

There were some additional ideas which branched off of this, such as elaborating on the differences between hull armor and energy shielding damage and how different styles of fighting wil be balanced for this mechanism. Once joykler has finished indexing the discussions, I'll be able to tell you where that thread is located and we can avoid fragmenting the conversation even further.

Btw, what part of please don't put nomination polls in your topics wasn't clear? If we are doing this indexing venture it needs to remain unobstructive, or it will just end up becoming a hindrance to the actual discussion. The less meta-debate we have to deal with, the better off we'll be.
If you told me not to put up nomination polls then I didnt see it. And this sounds like a pretty solid plan... I'm trying to think of any problems it might bring up though.
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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by CommanderKobialka » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:12 pm

Ivan2006 wrote:
Dr. Mackeroth wrote:
fr0stbyte124 wrote:I can work with that, assuming we can still balance hull/armor with shields, which I think we discussed in the other thread.
I think a ship's "health" should ideally be 80% shields, 18% armor, and 2% hull. Mostly shields makes Borg Cubes wasteful, but adding armor still makes planning designs important.

Oh, and Fr0st, I like your new avatar.
What is your definition of the difference of armor and hull?
I agree. Armor wouldn't be added on to the hp. It would take a percentage of damage taken away just like in most other games.
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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by Iv121 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:03 pm

You already know my opinion. I believe that the DMG should be made by block because it adds to the fun of buildingt the ship keeping it in mind while I believe frost's idea will not prevent people from making ugly ships, best way to prove it would be to face the simple fact there WILL be ugly ships out there no matter what, this will not help to solve the problem in any way. When a system is hit through the armor it's destroyed (just like in "real life") and the ship doesn't blow up unless you hit munition or fuel and such. It will fall apart and you will probably die from sofocation.
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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by joykler » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:16 pm

and i again point to my armor idea

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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:16 pm

@Iv121
I'm more interested in not pressuring people to sacrifice aesthetics in order to stay competetive.
If there is a way to do this but still allow design to play a role in combat, that's ideal.

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Re: customizable ship systems

Post by joykler » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:07 pm

my armor system would work for that
because it distributes the damage around it and increasing the pressure in rooms behind damaged walls
you need to think about how to built your ships not only exterior but also interior
because if you make borg the ship could collapse because the pressure within would become too great
you need decompressors
and you need to design the outside in a way that it can distribute the damage so that your ship would suffer the least
its flexible and can be used in any form without losing the texture because it would be on a ships block like a layer of snow

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