Sins of a Solar Empire

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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by  ҉  » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:42 am

Hmm. Ice and volcanic planets requiring research to colonize tends not to be a big deal in Trinity, because by the time you're looking at expansion much beyond your starter asteroid you've got the two civilian labs already, and the research is cheap. I can't think of a time when I've had a problem with that. Is it really that different once there are more worlds like that?

EDIT: Once you've gotten the DLC, can you still choose to play normal Rebellion? And if you can, can you still play MP with people who don't have the DLC?

FURTHER EDIT: I've purchased Rebellion, but not the DLC.

FURTHER EDIT: Titan killed the pirate base mostly by itself. :/ I only built 20 ships over the course of the entire game.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by  ҉  » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:58 pm

I think I'm just gonna post again now.

Have you figured out how to get all your ships and structures pinned to the Empire tree by default? I checked all the boxes for that in the options menu, but my scout frigates still default to unpinned.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by  ҉  » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:14 pm

JEDI'S OFFICIAL FIRST THOUGHTS ON REBELLION POST

I've played 1 and a bit games of Rebellion so far, both 1v1s against Easy AIs on Small Random maps. The first game we were both TEC Rebels, and the second both Advent Rebels.

1. The new interface for deciding your faction is OK. It's a bit less convenient than Trinity's, but with six factions now they had to do something else with it.
2. Being able to choose Random maps that are balanced for each player is a nice feature. I'll use that.
3. The alternative victory conditions are cool. I haven't experimented with them yet, but they seem like they'd provide essentially alternate gamemodes, which is cool.
4. In Trinity, all your units are pinned to the Empire tree by default. That's not the case in Rebellion. I set the Options to pin as many of them by default as it could, but it still doesn't pin scout frigates. I mentioned that in my previous post. All it means is that I have to remember to pin scouts when I build them, but it's still annoying.
5. The whole interface seems smaller in Rebellion than in Trinity. In Trinity the bottom bar covered the whole bottom of the screen, and there are gaps on the side now. The icons that show in place of the ships when you zoom out seem smaller as well, and perhaps a bit more detailed. A few of them have changed, too, but they're all still completely recognizable.
6. I'm not loving the Corvettes. I've only built the TEC ones so far, but even aside from being useless as far as I can tell, their voices are inconsistent with the rest of the TEC's ships. I don't know whether that's specific to TEC Rebel ones or not. But, like I said, they also seem fairly useless. They're really cheap, but they also barely deal damage and have very low health. They try to dart around like strike craft but can't blaze past an enemy ship like strike craft can, so instead they stop in their tracks right next to their target and then speed away in the same direction they came from, which looks pretty awful.
7. The main interface changes depending on what faction you are. The TEC one seems to be pretty much the same as the one in Trinity, and the Advent one has green stuff and a sort of scale texture thing.
8. There have been some graphical changes. Planets all seem to have different skins, and some ships look a bit different. Phase space looks different too. You can easily see that the entering-Phase-space thingie that ships project when they're beginning a jump is two-dimensional.
9. The gravity wells aren't actually circular. They're close, but you can pretty easily tell that they're actually polygons with lots of sides. This might have been the case in Trinity too, but the new visuals for gravity wells makes it much more obvious.
10. Dwarf planets do not change the game in any way. They seem to be pretty common, though.
11. Titans are surprisingly easy to acquire given how powerful they are. The research doesn't take that long, and is pretty cheap, and you only need four labs to do it. The Titan itself takes about five minutes to construct if you're not waiting for research, which isn't that long. 9500 credits makes it the most expensive single thing in the game, but that's not going to bankrupt anyone. They take a very long time to level up but are massively powerful even before they do. The impression that I got from it was that it's intended to be a early to middle game sort of thing that you hang on to for a long time, not an end game weapon the way superweapons are.
12. Bloody hell are the Titans ever strong. My level 2 Ragnarov killed the pirate base almost by itself.
13. The pirate bases are stronger than in Trinity. They've got Repair Platforms and Hangar Defenses as well as the Gauss Turrets.
14. I only constructed 20 ships in the entire first game I played. I built the usual 2 scouts, 5 light frigates, colony frigate, and Sova pretty much as soon as the game started, and then 10 Corvettes later to see what they did, and then I had the Titan within about half an hour of the game starting, and that was all the ships I needed. I could have done it without the Corvettes, too. That feels wrong to me in a number of ways. Given how cheap they are compared to their cost, the feeling that you need to rush to get your Titan before the other guy does, and their detrimental effect on fleet composition (it's pretty much unnecessary; the Titan can kill everything), I'm not at all certain the Titans were a good addition to the game.
15. TEC Loyalists don't have to go through the whole missile tech tree to get Novas. It's on its own, like the Kostura Cannon.
16. I've seen ships appear to screw up their pathfinding when asked to travel from one gravity well to another non-adjacent one. I sent a scout over to the enemy's homeworld and he ended up at a dead-end dwarf planet right next to where he was built. I can't be certain that I'm not just crazy, though. I might have screwed up the orders.
17. Colony frigates seem to be faster than they were in Trinity.
18. When you select a bunch of ships at once and tell them to go somewhere, they all move at the same speed. I'm pretty sure they weren't doing that in Trinity.

I think that's it for now. I might have more once I've finished the second game. I'd be interested to know if these match up with what other people who have played both Trinity and Rebellion noticed.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by Chairman_Tiel » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:37 pm

Ultimately the corvettes seem like a useless addition. They don't affect gameplay much, for good reason - make them extra-mobile weapons platforms and cries for nerf will abound. Make them gnats and then everyone will say they're useless. From what I've seen it comes down to a swarm of corvettes being a viable early game tactic or merely a novelty that people elect to forgo in favor of the much more reliable frigates, depending on the update. It's not like in previous expansions where a new unit comprises a counter to another addition, like structure busters and starbases...the corvette just doesn't fulfill a meaningful at all.

But to be honest, I'd say the same thing about the Titan (c'mon, all it does is add yet another thing to divert your attention to, 'cept not like other stuff because you'll get wrecked if you don't have one by midgame), so take it with a grain of salt.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by hyperlite » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:38 pm

bump
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by Pat22 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:51 pm

Corvettes do have a purpose. They counter LRFs, though the illuminator less so than the Javelis or Vasari one (Kanrak?) because it can fire on three banks, thus making their strike-craft like movement less useful for avoiding being shot at. They're meant to be spammed in large numbers and in addition, they are immune to pretty much all Titan abilities, making them good counters against Titans, though you need a lot of them.
Their debuffs are also quite handy. As Vasari Rebel, 50% slower energy weapons and 50% slower anitmatter regen is pretty useful when applied to enemy ships.

Their very fast movement speed and excellent maneuverability also make them good ships to use for a quick response to an enemy attack on one of your planets. Say a few siege frigates manage to slip by your front line and start bombing one of your undefended planets. 4-6 corvettes will solve that problem real fast.

As far as having two civic research labs or even full titan research done early in the game, that's not something that's likely to happen in an actual competitive match against other players. Someone trying to push out an early Titan is going to sink too much resources into it and get overrun by the opponent's superior fleet, and someone going into civic research at the start of a game rather than military will get outgunned before he can put any of the civic upgrades to use, unless it's a team game and you're in what's called the "eco" spot, meaning you're surrounded by allies and the enemies can't get to you.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by Chairman_Tiel » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:49 am

As a fast response force the only thing they'd be good against is siege frigates and LRMs; threats that would more easily be countered by a hangar defense. Combat frigates take them out pathetically fast unless you invest in a swarm, which is something of a costly expenditure when you should be putting those resources into Titan research. And from the matches I've played online everyone's pushed out a Titan fairly quickly, as not having one is tantamount to suicide. I assume they had a firm grasp on their economies because I killed at least three of them (which the guy was rather lax about, saying that level 1s are worthless) before the fourth came with a fleet and tore me a new one.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by  ҉  » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:50 am

Farseer wrote:(which the guy was rather lax about, saying that level 1s are worthless)
When you make a new Titan it retains the levels of the old one, so losing it wouldn't be a catastrophe. You're down 9500 credits, but not the time invested into leveling it up. Losing a level 10 Titan would probably not be as bad as losing a level 10 capital ship, really.

I hear the thing about Corvettes being able to get to where they're needed really fast, but they're just such astonishingly sucky ships that I can't imagine it would do much. Fighters are already the counter to LRMs. I suppose being able to clean up that one siege frigate without having to divert ships that are more useful on the front lines is OK, but it's hard to justify an entire new class of ship just for that.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by ACH0225 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:28 am

I usually throw a couple corvettes into a fleet to just have some targets to distract capships. My main use for them is just cannon fodder in general.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by Iv121 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:35 am

I usually loose O.o .
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by ACH0225 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:37 am

You lose, but they're cheap and easy to spam. I sent a fleet of 15 or so to an enemy's big shipyard place, distracted his Titan from one of my colonies long enough to get my main fleet in.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by Pat22 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:49 am

Fighters are indeed also a counter to LRMs, but corvettes are earlier in the tech tree and cheaper.
Besides, they still remain immune to Titan abilities, making them a counter to Titans.
Oh, also, they do have some flak weapons, giving them so early form of strike craft protection. It won't save you from a carrier fleet but could even the odds if a guy with one or two carriers or a carrier capital ship shows up before you have your own flak / fighters.

I won't pretend to have a lot of competitive multiplayer experience, but I've watched replays by the guys who are supposedly the best players online, and they pretty much never went for Titans. In fact, they never really teched up much past the first 3-4 military tech tiers. Everything was light frigates, corvettes, flak frigates and LRMs.
I saw one replay where a guy rushed a Titan but that's because he spawned surrounded by enemies and new he was dead anyways so he tried to be as much a pain in the butt as he could before being taken out.

Chances are, if you had attacked that guy, Farseer, either before he got his first Titan built or after you destroyed it for the first time, he would not have been able to stop you.
He'd be somewhere around 15k credits behind you in every respect and have a weaker economy. You could have just overrun him.
Unless, of course, he was much better than you and knew it and was just toying with you.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by Chairman_Tiel » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:42 pm

Fair enough.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by  ҉  » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:20 pm

Easy AIs seem a lot easier in Rebellion than in Trinity. Both the ones I've played so far have been in a really sorry state. They've had horrible economies despite a fair number of planets, have barely even fielded ships, and have hardly researched anything at all.
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Re: Sins of a Solar Empire

Post by Chairman_Tiel » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:23 pm

*gasp*, you mean they're easy now? o.o
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