Galactic Civilizations III

[DeadlyMiddie]

Picked it up yesterday. It's pretty good so far, and it's multiplayer.... Anyone else have/planning to have it?

[Saravanth]

I am considering buying it. From what the reviews said though it isn't too much of an improvement over GCII, which makes me hesitant to shell out another, what, forty bucks?

[Chairman_Tiel]

Gaming industry is so fickle. If mechanics change, "THEY WASHED IT DOWN" or "THEY'VE RUINED THE GAMEPLAY" but if they don't "IT'S THE SAME GAME" and "THERE'S NO IMPROVEMENT."

I preordered GC3 a while back at a good price. At the time it was so feature incomplete...didn't really touch it. Will have to now that the *official* release is out.

Frankly, does anyone like designing ships in 4X games though? I mean, a big appeal of the game is that you can start with nothing and draw together pieces to make your dream fleet, but it gets soo tedious once you start getting into the game and having a galaxy spanning armada. You can't get by with one design, so you're probably painstakingly retrofitting at least three with every weaponry advancement. You might even have to scrap entire fleets once a new module is made available and a new ship must be structured around it.

What would be a great idea for 4X's including this element (which is most of them) is a simple 'upgrade' button. Simplify it so that users may sacrifice flexibility for convenience, just like auto-resolving battles instead of waging them. Hell, maybe even make it so that fleets automatically attempt to update to the latest version depending on their budget. Or something. People are always scared of what they perceive as dumbing down but honestly some of the smaller things are made better that way. 4X games suffer tragically from a steep learning curve and unfriendly GUIs. Maybe it's time someone made a casual one that isn't Sins.

[Error]

Agreed, there. While the ship designer is actually pretty neat, the whole 'you must do every single thing manually' is annoying. Convenience factor, folks?

Might get GC3, never played GC2. Unsure as of yet.

[Chairman_Tiel]

how dare you

meet me at sunset

[Vinyl]

Endless Space m8

[Chairman_Tiel]

Just as bad as any of them. The refit option is nice but it doesn't really solve the problem of having to manually install all the latest equipment in a configuration optimal to the ship's purpose.

Endless Space gives me the gripes. I remember one game where I had to constantly send fleets scurrying to refit different variants of the same ship as the AI kept switching weapons tech on me. I'd have to update each one personally too, because evidently I'm the only one with any shred of common sense in Sheredyn. The retrofit button helped me a lot, but it could be so much more than an expatiation to a broken system.

That particular problem is more innate to this whole idea of researching different weapon trees. What's the point of going to level 5 bullets or kinetic-what-have-yous if the enemy has randomly chosen one of the armor types that negates them, or bypasses your own hull research? Setting them up as hard counters heavily reduces one's strategic options...the logic is clearly to leave much to chance and generate intrigue, but all it does is turn any sane player into a hardline all-rounder all the time. There is no room to appreciate the full extent of any of the options when doing so opens one up to damnation with little discernible effect, aside from a brief advantage for the handful of rounds it will take for the enemy to catch up in their own research and counter as needed.

ZOMG options is countered pretty hardly by ZOMG reality.

I've dwelled on this for a long time. Automation and user friendliness is definitely a must if the genre wants to maintain a foothold in the market.

[Professor Fenway]

I've played GCII and i have some insight on it;

Generally, I design three-four base "hulls" at the beginning of the game as the basic designs. These designs are then expanded into different roles and different weapon/equipment loadouts; this giving versions A,B, and C of each hull. Recon, fighting, tanking, all among them. But generally I round out all the weaponry among every single one. Same with the defenses. Some designs specialize in some areas; for example, lasers due to lower weight. But they are generally rounded out.

This may seem odd, but I have always rounded out everything. Over-specialization in any way is absolutely useless, not just in 4x, but in any game. Practically every game discourages overspecialization, mainly because it gives you short term advantages with long term disadvantages. But that may just be me.

Another thing: I don't immediately upgrade ships whenever new hardware comes out. That would be like the U.S putting the newest technology the second it comes out on active ships. Expensive and dangerous. Instead, I only update designs when a significant upgrade is in order; complete overhauls, in other words. The only other upgrade point is when I am at a significant disadvantage due to the current designs. I would update the design then slowly roll it out depending on the timeline I need it in.

Another thing; better quality stuff costs more (from what i've seen). So I could build 5 of an older design for the price of 2 new designs, and have equal firepower overall. That's just the balance thing.


But I definitely agree with you as to the interface and automation, friendliness. Galciv II is horrendous in the interface and design of ship designing; it could be made much, much better and friendlier. It is intimidating and not as powerful as it could be. Horrendous.

[Chairman_Tiel]

I would argue that many games reward over-specialization in that

(skill * specialization) = success

Consider sniper rifles in modern FPS, or mages in an RPG. Individual finesse balances out the weak points - in the right hands they can be much more potent than their jack-of-all-trades equivalents. The problem with that in 4X is that there's no area for that skill to really present itself. It's very rare that a 4X game lets one take direct action in combat, and even then, the mechanics are usually base enough that no amount of acumen will alter results. And honestly, that's the way it should be: we're here to run an empire, not micromanage fleet commanders. But as a result I feel the obligatory rock-paper-scissors tech tree (or bullet-missile-laser, if you will) is an added gimmick that doesn't add much and just serves to slow everyone down as they research everything just in case.

And of course, 4X is designed to be slow. I was horrified when some guys I know insisted on playing Sins on max speed - it perverts the spirit of the game. At the same time, however, if an appeal is to remain for the incoming generation of players I feel cellulite like that should be abolished, or at least made more dynamic. Make them optional instead of gamebreaking. I shouldn't be able to conquer half your empire because you decided early on to equip your knights with guns while I went with green, energy-efficient phasers.