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Shiva isn't a bad admin (from what I've seen) as much as she has a bit of a temper problem. I haven't seen Mens in action but he seems like a pretty good guy.
OK, I've finally finished formatting the chat logs so they're at least vaguely readable on the forum. They're quite long, but I think they'll shed some light on this issue and why I feel the way I do. Be aware that there is some profanity in this conversation, from both sides.
Spoiler:
[This was a couple of days ago. I don’t remember exactly how long. I asked Shiva why she’d banned Mensrea, and she said it was because Laserbeam banned her from Industrial War. A few lines from this were posted on the forum. It was late enough that I didn’t pursue it. The next morning, I got up and found she’d posted a few more lines, so I responded to them.] 1. [40:55:42] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
2. I am Last_Jedi_Standing.
3. [40:55:47] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
4. I am a moderator. 5. [40:55:54] [Tiel]
6. Yes? 7. [40:55:59] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
8. As a moderator, it is my job to make sure the forum is run correctly.
9. [40:56:06] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
10. That includes you, Shiva. 11. [41:11:09] [Tiel]
12. Did something happen? 13. [41:11:22] [Last_Jedi_Standing - 25.92.238.126 / 2620:9b::195c:ee7e]
14. Yeah, Shiva banned Mensrea.
15. [41:12:21] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
16. Her last post a few hours ago, after I'd left, was
17. [34:39:01] [Shiva]
18. Meh...
19. [34:39:06] [Shiva]
20. and who are you, again?
[I don’t have the rest of the logs from that conversation anymore. It didn’t seem important at the time.] 21. [41:12:41] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
22. I was responding to her.
23. [41:12:55] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
24. Several hours late, but it's the thought that counts. :P
[This happened yesterday. I think there were a few lines of conversation before this, but nothing important was said. I don’t seem to have them recorded anywhere.] 25. [89:20:16] [Shiva]
26. Someone's murdered IndustrialWar's website and taken down the server. 27. [89:20:30] [Tiel]
28. lol
29. [89:20:36] [Tiel]
30. Death to tekkit! 31. [89:20:40] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
32. Indeed.
33. [89:20:58] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
34. Perhaps Mensrea's unbanning will be of some small consolation. 35. [89:21:12] [Shiva]
36. Please.
37. [89:21:25] [Shiva]
38. When I'm unbanned, he shall be too.
39. [89:21:39] [Shiva]
40. Hell, if he has to completely restart the servers I may be unbanned by default. 41. [89:21:41] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
42. Perhaps you don't understand.
43. [89:21:48] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
44. You banned Mensrea unjustly.
45. [89:21:52] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
46. I have fixed it. 47. [89:22:09] [Shiva]
48. ... 49. [89:22:10] [Tiel]
50. Perhaps Shiva was banned unjustly. Who knows. 51. [89:22:15] [Shiva]
52. I was. 53. [89:22:24] [Tiel]
54. And enter sends the message, instead of putting me on another line.
55. [89:22:25] [Tiel]
56. Great. 57. [89:22:27] [Shiva]
58. Aaaand with that, he's banned again. 59. [89:22:31] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
60. I have no way of knowing that, and frankly it doesn't matter.
61. [89:22:36] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
62. ...
63. [89:22:39] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
64. No, Shiva.
65. [89:22:42] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
66. We have rules for a reason. 67. [89:22:45] [Tiel]
68. Somehow I doubt Mensrea cares. 69. [89:22:46] [Shiva]
70. Don't undo my work again, or you're next. 71. [89:22:47] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
72. You cannot do that.
73. [89:22:55] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
74. I am going to undo it now. 75. [89:23:12] [Shiva]
76. *charges the banhammer to maximum power* 77. [89:23:27] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
78. Fuck you, Shiva. 79. [89:23:36] [Tiel]
80. Oh dear. 81. [89:23:36] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
82. If we're going to ban people for no reason, I don't want to be here. 83. [89:23:55] [Tiel]
84. Can we just calm down?
85. [89:23:57] [Tiel]
86. A little bit? 87. [89:24:00] [Shiva]
88. I have a reason, so fuck you. 89. [89:24:12] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
90. Your reason is not a good reason. 91. [89:24:16] [Shiva]
92. My reason is that I don't appreciate being attacked by asswipes who ban ME without reason.
93. [89:24:19] [Shiva]
94. Therefor I retaliate with the EXACT SAME PUNISHMENT.
95. [89:24:33] [Shiva]
96. Offa your high horse, now, before I shoot the poor beast. 97. [89:24:35] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
98. What happened to 'turn the other cheek'? 99. [89:24:43] [Shiva]
100. I'm not Jesus. 101. [89:24:49] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
102. You don't have to be. 103. [89:25:04] [Shiva]
104. There's a very specific reason I picked my username, Jedi. 105. [89:25:04] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
106. But you do have to make an effort to respect the rules you're supposed to be upholding. 107. [89:26:04] [Shiva]
108. I'm not supposed to uphold rules.
109. [89:26:06] [Shiva]
110. That's your job.
111. [89:26:12] [Shiva]
112. My job is dealing with problems. 113. [89:26:13] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
114. So what are you?
115. [89:26:20] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
116. And you think Mensrea is one. 117. [89:26:25] [Shiva]
118. I think Laser is. 119. [89:26:31] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
120. He's not on our forum.
121. [89:26:38] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
122. I don't give a crap what you do to him. 123. [89:26:39] [Shiva]
124. Only way I can stop his entry is to fry Mens.
125. [89:26:55] [Shiva]
126. Sad fact, because Mens himself is nice. 127. [89:27:01] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
128. But Mensrea is a member of the Futurecraft forums, and as a moderator it is my job to make sure shit like this doesn't happen. 129. [89:27:03] [Shiva]
130. Lazer's a *.
131. [89:27:14] [Shiva]
132. ...
133. [89:27:29] [Shiva]
134. No, your job is to solve problems that I haven't gotten around to yet.
135. [89:27:46] [Shiva]
136. Or if you don't want to deal with it, to kick it up to me so I can. 137. [89:27:57] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
138. At what point are you going to understand that I am absolutely serious about this, and I'm not going to simply follow your orders? 139. [89:28:14] [Shiva]
140. At what point are you going to understand that I'm not giving you an order? 141. [89:28:17] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
142. We have rules for a reason, Shiva.
143. [89:28:24] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
144. You aren't following them. 145. [89:28:30] [Shiva]
146. WE don't.
147. [89:28:34] [Shiva]
148. The forum at whole does.
149. [89:28:39] [Shiva]
150. as a* 151. [89:28:40] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
152. We are the forum.
153. [89:28:54] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
154. You and I are bound by the same rules as anyone else. 155. [89:28:58] [Shiva]
156. ...
157. [89:29:02] [Shiva]
158. Fallacious nonsense. 159. [89:29:09] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
160. If you think being the admin lets you ignore the rules, we have a serious problem here. 161. [89:29:22] [Shiva]
162. I think being the admin lets me deal with shit. 163. [89:29:32] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
164. You aren't dealing with shit, Shiva. 165. [89:29:38] [Shiva]
166. Yes, I am. 167. [89:29:47] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
168. You're retaliating against an innocent person because you don't like their friend. 169. [89:29:49] [Shiva]
170. And I'm about to deal with you, if you don't stop being such a damn *. 171. [89:29:58] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
172. I don't care what you do to me.
173. [89:30:07] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
174. I would rather be banned than have this happen.
175. [89:30:19] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
176. If stuff like this happens, there's no point. 177. [89:30:21] [Shiva]
178. Congrats.
179. [89:30:25] [Shiva]
180. Tiel?
181. [89:30:36] [Shiva]
182. Sorry for what I'm about to do to your forum. It really was quite lovely. 183. [89:31:07] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
184. Tiel's offline. 185. [89:31:28] [Shiva]
186. Then who's freedom?
187. [89:31:35] [Shiva]
188. oh, well.
189. [89:31:40] [Shiva]
190. Still, point valid. 191. [89:31:41] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
192. That's Tiel. He's offline.
193. [89:31:57] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
194. Isn't he? 195. [89:32:07] [Shiva]
196. God I love the big red "NOPE" button I installed in the ACP.
[At some point over the last while Tiel had gone offline. He came back now. It should be noted that his Hamachi name was ‘Freedom’.] 197. [89:32:43] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
198. There he is. 199. [89:32:57] [Tiel]
200. Did I miss anything? 201. [89:33:00] [Shiva]
202. Yep.
203. [89:33:10] [Shiva]
204.
[89:30:27]
205. Congrats.
206. [89:30:31]
207. Tiel?
208. [89:30:43]
209. Sorry for what I'm about to do to your forum. It really was quite lovely.
[This is when Tiel locked down the forum to keep Shiva from doing whatever it was that she was going to do, I think. I don’t know when that happened exactly.] 210. [89:33:12] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
211. Shiva's destroying the forum because I won't let her ignore the rules. 212. [89:33:19] [Shiva]
213. I make the rules. 214. [89:33:28] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
215. No you don't, Shiva.
216. [89:33:31] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
217. You're not a god.
218. [89:33:37] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
219. There are no gods. 220. [89:33:38] [Shiva]
221. The only reason you're a moderator is because I decided to let you guys do an election.
222. [89:33:45] [Shiva]
223. There is one God. 224. [89:33:50] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
225. And why are you an admin, exactly? 226. [89:34:03] [Shiva]
227. Because I chose to be. 228. [89:34:09] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
229. I see.
230. [89:34:15] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
231. Very well. 232. [89:34:18] [Shiva]
233. I can choose not to be just as fast. 234. [89:34:19] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
235. Pat was right after all. 236. [89:34:32] [Shiva]
237. ?
238. [89:36:20] [Shiva]
239. Fine. Don't speak. 240. [89:36:35] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
241. I don't know what you expect me to say.
242. [89:36:57] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
243. You were trusted.
244. [89:37:01] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
245. You were the admin. 246. [89:37:07] [Shiva]
247. I was never trusted. 248. [89:37:11] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
249. You were supposed to be the model citizen. 250. [89:37:14] [Shiva]
251. You jackasses don't even like me. 252. [89:37:21] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
253. And no, you're right. We don't.
254. [89:37:30] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
255. I did, once. I sure as hell don't anymore. 256. [89:37:33] [Shiva]
257. Barely put up with me, just like everyone else. Barely respect when I try to do good things. 258. [89:37:58] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
259. The problem isn't when you try to do good things. It's when you screw up epically and then try to take everyone else down with you.
260. [89:38:02] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
261. Like you're doing right now. 262. [89:38:07] [Shiva]
263. I'm a goddamn human being, Jedi. You might not be, but I am.
264. [89:38:19] [Shiva]
265. The only mistake was you reversing MY decision, Jedi! 266. [89:38:37] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
267. I don't know what your 'red button' is supposed to do, but if you're looking for a reason people don't trust you that would be a good place to start. 268. [89:38:39] [Shiva]
269. I'm trying to save myself some goddamn head and heartache rather than be belittled by a mental incompetent. 270. [89:38:46] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
271. Walk away. 272. [89:39:05] [Shiva]
273. And you don't have the common decency to let me do that, you malicious bastard! 274. [89:39:23] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
275. You are being a bad administrator. 276. [89:39:32] [Tiel]
277. This is all a bit melodramatic.
278. [89:39:38] [Tiel]
279. On both of your parts. 280. [89:39:47] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
281. So it is. 282. [89:39:52] [Shiva]
283. It's melodramatic because I'm fucking hurt and I want just a little bit of peace?
284. [89:40:00] [Shiva]
285. Because Jedi here won't allow me to have it?
286. [89:40:03] [Shiva]
287. Really. 288. [89:40:07] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
289. You don't get that by removing justice, Shiva. 290. [89:40:13] [Tiel]
291. Let's slow down here.
292. [89:40:21] [Tiel]
293. The issue is still over Mensrea, right? 294. [89:40:24] [Shiva]
295. I AM justice, you lack-celled buffoon! 296. [89:40:27] [Tiel]
297. Or has it exploded into something b-
298. [89:40:32] [Tiel]
299. Yeah, I figured as much. 300. [89:40:40] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
301. And, see, this is the problem. 302. [89:41:06] [Shiva]
303. I'm not REMOVING justice, I'm GETTING some for myself. 304. [89:41:12] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
305. The fundamental issue is that Shiva thinks it's her forum and she can do whatever the hell she wants, and she took it quite badly when I said otherwise. 306. [89:41:14] [Shiva]
307. YOU are removing justice. 308. [89:41:32] [Tiel]
309. Yet, at the same time.
310. [89:41:34] [Tiel]
311. Is it? 312. [89:41:45] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
313. You are trying to ban someone who has done nothing wrong on this forum.
314. [89:41:50] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
315. That is wrong. 316. [89:41:54] [Shiva]
317. It's not like he cares! 318. [89:42:00] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
319. I care. 320. [89:42:18] [Shiva]
321. Hell, I fucking TOLD him I had to stop Laser from reading what I post there and attacking me with it. 322. [89:42:18] [Tiel]
323. Is penalizing one user for another's actions any better than having the same done to you in the first place?
324. [89:42:31] [Tiel]
325. But, is Shiva not the admin? 326. [89:42:36] [Shiva]
327. He SUGGESTED the ban. 328. [89:42:39] [Tiel]
329. And why am I asking questions? 330. [89:42:49] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
331. Mensrea suggested that you ban him.
332. [89:42:54] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
333. Right, right. 334. [89:42:57] [Shiva]
335. Email rocks. 336. [89:42:57] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
337. Makes sense. 338. [89:43:02] [Shiva]
339. Want the logs? 340. [89:43:05] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
341. Sure. 342. [89:43:11] [Shiva]
343. I can get them off hotmail in about five seconds. 344. [89:43:47] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
345. If you can show that you are not, in fact, completely ignoring the rules you should be upholding, I have no issue with you actions.
[This is when Pat came online.] 346. [89:44:14] [Tiel]
347. Oh boy.
348. [89:44:18] [Tiel]
349. Welcome to the party. 350. [89:44:18] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
351. I think you're a terrible person, and you have completely the wrong mindset, but I will not continue to unban Mensrea. 352. [89:44:27] [Shiva]
353. ...
354. [89:44:34] [Shiva]
355. Well ain't that peachy, Jedi.
356. [89:44:42] [Shiva]
357. Yet another person who needlessly hates me. 358. [89:44:51] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
359. They do say that honesty is the best policy. 360. [89:45:06] [Tiel]
361. You've never been one to beat around the bush, I'll give you that.
362. [89:45:14] [Tiel]
363. I don't think that's necessary, though. 364. [89:45:20] [Shiva]
365. Guess so. This, however, is something that I can deal with short of kicking you off the fucking forums. 366. [89:45:56] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
367. I'm still waiting on those email logs.
[At this point Shiva kicked me off the Hamachi network. I got back on about 20 minutes later. I spend much of the time talking to Pat on the other network. The rest of this stuff happened in my absence. I got it from Tiel afterwards.] 368. [89:46:28] [Kayleigh - 25.100.211.122 / 2620:9b::1964:d37a]
369. I'm going to go cool off somewhere.
370. [89:46:58] [Kayleigh - 25.100.211.122 / 2620:9b::1964:d37a]
371. Because apparantly I'm a mean, megalomaniacal * who can't be trusted with a teaspoon. 372. [89:47:22] [Tiel]
373. I would make a joke, but it doesn't seem like the time. 374. [89:47:57] [Kayleigh - 25.100.211.122 / 2620:9b::1964:d37a]
375. Go ahead and make it, Tiel. I'm already loading my rifle, might as well have extra incentive to drive bullseyes at the range. 376. [89:48:16] [Tiel]
377. But the moment has passed :'( 378. [89:50:29] [Kayleigh - 25.100.211.122 / 2620:9b::1964:d37a]
379. Somebody is screwing with the forums, and it isn't me. 380. [89:51:24] [Tiel]
381. ? 382. [89:51:41] [Kayleigh - 25.100.211.122 / 2620:9b::1964:d37a]
383. ssomeone put up a board message of "just incase you're serious" 384. [89:51:49] [Tiel]
385. Oh.
386. [89:51:52] [Tiel]
387. You scared me. 388. [89:52:08] [Kayleigh - 25.100.211.122 / 2620:9b::1964:d37a]
389. It was you? 390. [89:52:22] [Tiel]
391. I was prepared to lock down the forum if I saw anything damaging in the logs.
392. [89:52:39] [Tiel]
393. For a time there, normal people couldn't even see the forum.
394. [89:55:07] [Tiel]
395. I can understand where both of you are coming from, but the simple fact remains that decisions made in anger aren't always the best ones.
[About 10 minutes of silence, and then I come back on the network. Shiva is still online but apparently AFK. Tiel, Pat, and I talk for a long time about random stuff, mostly Sins of a Solar Empire. Eventually this happens.] 396. [90:39:58] [Pat22]
397. So how exactly did the argument with Shiva begin? 398. [90:40:18] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
399. I don't have the first half of the chat.
400. [90:40:21] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
401. Do you, Tiel?
[Tiel posts chat logs. Much of this conversation comes from his posts over the next few minutes. I’m not posting them now for reasons that should be obvious. Anyway, a few minutes later…] 402. [90:49:33] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
403. Yes, I believe I have the entire discussion now.
404. [90:49:48] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
405. Yeah.
406. [90:50:10] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
407. Think it's worth the time to get it all in order, or should I just hang on to it? 408. [90:50:59] [Pat22]
409. Funny how she never actually showed those email logs 410. [90:51:08] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
411. Yeah, I noticed that.
412. [90:51:20] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
413. I was kicked out of the network when I asked about them. 414. [90:51:26] [Pat22]
415. just about when I got in
416. [90:51:32] [Pat22]
417. I saw no logs 418. [90:51:33] [Tiel]
419. after, I believe 420. [90:51:52] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
421. I posted "I'm still waiting on those logs" and was immediately kicked.
422. [90:52:05] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
423. Doesn't leave me inclined to believe her, really. 424. [90:52:31] [Pat22]
425. hey I'm still waiting on the 20-hour slugfest video : / 426. [90:52:46] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
427. We're waiting on a lot of things where Shiva is concerned. 428. [90:52:52] [Pat22]
429. Indeed 430. [90:52:52] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
431. You were right, Pat. 432. [90:54:03] [Pat22]
433. It's a shame, I kinda liked Shiva at first impression 434. [90:54:12] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
435. As did I. 436. [90:54:28] [Shiva]
437. Hello boys, I'm b-
438. [90:54:30] [Shiva]
439. ... 440. [90:55:08] [Pat22]
441. You never really left, did you? 442. [90:55:16] [Shiva]
443. One hour and about a hundred dollars worth of 5.56 NATO later, I come back and see you guys still being jerks. 444. [90:55:18] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
445. Does it matter?
446. [90:55:50] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
447. She was online, so she can see all the logs.
448. [90:55:58] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
449. Were you not aware? 450. [90:56:03] [Pat22]
451. Of course 452. [90:56:16] [Shiva]
453. You know, I used to like all of you too. 454. [90:56:38] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
455. So leave. 456. [90:56:43] [Shiva]
457. And then somewhere along the lines I had the bright idea of creating moderators to run the forums when I was unavailable.
458. [90:56:49] [Shiva]
459. Also, you're in MY Hamachi. You leave. 460. [90:56:58] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
461. If you don't like us, and you're convinced we don't like you, go away and be happy. 462. [90:57:13] [Shiva]
463. I repeat what I just said.
464. [90:57:47] [Shiva]
465. If you can't stand me and think I'm a bad person, a terrible person for wanting a little bit of peace of mind, then by all means, get the hell out of my chatbox. 466. [90:58:08] [Last_Jedi_Standing]
467. Tiel's not in my chatbox. Pat is, and we're using it. 468. [90:58:37] [Shiva]
469. Hm. 470. [90:58:47] [Pat22]
471. Bye now 472. [90:58:49] [Shiva]
473. My point, however, is still valid.
[Pat left at this point.] 474. [90:59:17] [Shiva]
475. If you hate me this goddamn much, leave.
476. [90:59:24] [Shiva]
477. Don't insult me behind my back where I can see it.
478. [91:01:01] [Shiva]
479. Byebye, Tiel.
480. [91:01:28] [Shiva]
481. was nice, sometimes.
482. [91:01:39] [Shiva]
483. Hope the mod goes well.
484. [91:01:49] [Shiva]
485. I won't be around to see it.
[Shiva now kicks everyone off the network. The End.]
;.'.;'::.;:".":;",,;':",;
(Kzinti script, as best as can be displayed in Human characters, translated roughly as "For the Patriarchy!")
Lovely job with the editing Jedi, it was very readable, but holy crap do we ever need to work on your not-aggrivating-the-situation-skills.
But yeah, that went roughly how I imagined. So now Mensrea is unbanned over here, we can't do anything about the situation over at Industrial War, this Laser guy continues to have nothing to do with the Futurecraft forum, and Shiva is off regaining her zen or entering underground cage matches, whatever it is she does with her time while not online. I would say that Futurecraft's role in the situation is over, and we have no need for discussing it further.
fr0stbyte124 wrote:Lovely job with the editing Jedi, it was very readable, but holy crap do we ever need to work on your not-aggrivating-the-situation-skills.
@Pat
Right or wrong, it didn't accomplish anything. Shiva was definitely at fault here, but LJS had so many oportunities where he could have ended the matter and chose to keep going.
It's unproductive.
fr0stbyte124 wrote:@Pat
Right or wrong, it didn't accomplish anything. Shiva was definitely at fault here, but LJS had so many oportunities where he could have ended the matter and chose to keep going.
It's unproductive.
*EDIT* not Iv
No, it was productive. The result was the removal of Shiva from her position of power. Had Jedi stopped any sooner, she'd still be here as the admin. Her complete "departure" from the forum is a shame but was her choice of action in the end.
Look at the chat logs, is that really the person you want in charge of the forum?
This is not the first time Shiva bans someone unjustly, on a whim, and it would not have been the last.
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