Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

If it's relevant to Futurecraft, it goes here.
Forum rules
- This area is for general discussion; ideas and ships go elsewhere. Offending threads will be removed without prior notice.
- Unnecessary topics will be deleted or locked without warning.
Error
Moderator
Posts:4205
Joined:Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:49 am
Affiliation:CNI
IGN:FC_Rangefinder
Location:Sol IIIa, School of Hard Knocks
Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Error » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:51 pm

The Terran Union officially dissolved in 2191 in the most recent canon RP. Ded.

And you'll note we're drawing and modelling ships for this. And so far, there's nothing wrong with them.
Image

Vinyl
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts:3217
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:54 pm
Affiliation:Hexalan
IGN:PCaptainRexK
Location:Hexalan

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Vinyl » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:55 pm

*deep sigh* It's iconic in the ships section, not the RP. They're two different things. And if the UTN /isn't/ dead, then what the fuck has it been doing for the past however many years they've been dormant?
cats wrote:I literally cannot be wrong about this fictional universe

Professor Fenway
Texture Artist
Texture Artist
Posts:1506
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:47 pm
Affiliation:Novus Roma
Location:Neither Here nor There

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Professor Fenway » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:54 pm

Tiel, from what I understand you're getting at, you want to make a generic RTS with spaceships and that's it. No empires. No backstory. Just throwing ships at eachother and saying 'fight!' for some reason. Let me tell you why that's boring as shit and why we should use the RP (to an extent) as a backstory.

We're zero budget (or very low) which means that our graphics and gameplay will not be mediocre. That's fine. But we need to make up for that with backstory, lore. Look at older games, TEXT based games especially. Their ONLY savior was the story and lore. Even when it advanced, story and lore are essential for even a mediocre game. Look at the Curse of Monkey Island. It's graphics are mediocre but the story, lore, and comedy are put together very well, making it a good game. Look at SOASE. The three factions are DEEPLY fleshed out, with entire backstories and descriptions, making it an even better game. By throwing out the lore/backstory, we're throwing out the little talent we have: writing.

And using the RP is not unoriginal/wrong in anyway. Why? Because it is original. It is something we, as a forum, collectively created. It is well developed, fleshed out, expansive. It has a lot of information on many things. It's a springboard. It's an advantage, prior writing. Space Owls are done to death on this forum. I get that. But to others OUTSIDE this forum, if changed a bit, it's a pretty unique concept. Even if it is a bit unrealistic. Generic human alliances have been done to death and there's nothing we can do about it. HGE is unique too. Remember that space combat is also extremely unrealistic: it is WAY more efficient to sling missiles at each other from planetary surfaces.

The RP lore is an advantage we have, Tiel. I don't know why your so keen on removing it for the sake of originality; it is original. It is something that we, as the forum, created over years using our imaginations, other sources, and so on. Nobody else in the world has developed our universe the way we did. And if some of our ideas are unoriginal, so what? No idea is truly original anymore, we just put together ideas already done to death in different ways, in different stories. Zombies are ridiculously overdone, for example, but there are many different ways to do them still. So are alien invasions. Or combat simulators. Or RTS'. Or anything. All similar in concept, but they tell radically different stories in radically different ways. That makes the difference.

No backstory and lore for the RTS will make it unoriginal, uninventive, because it's been done before. Adding what we have will give it some shine, however small it is.

cannonfodder

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by cannonfodder » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:02 pm

Commander Error wrote:While shadow may be roughly as subtle as an orbital strike, he has a point; if this is to be a Futurecraft RTS, at least a mention of the Strig is required. While Mercury might hate them with every fiber of his hate, they have been a fixture of the RPs and accepted lore for most/all of its existence.

At this point, I must ask: are we making a FutureCraft RTS, or a Genericus Sci-Fi RTS?

When I tried/failed to restart this, I saw it as an FC-lore based game, with the strengths, weaknesses, units, and backgrounds relevant to. I based it off the RPs because there is no 'FC lore' from the other parts of the forum; plus, a great many members have made and played factions within the RPs.

Really, while removing the Strigiforme isn't entirely a dealbreaker, it does shift this from 'FC-centric' to 'FC-based, partially original'. Not bad, per se, but not what most of us had in mind, either.

Just me .02 credits.
Allow me to be equally concise: I don't care about canon. It's a mess and to call it lore to abide by would be giving it far too much credit. If that weren't the case I'm sure prototype would have tried to integrate all your wildest hopes and dreams into his project - what's preventing that on his end is anything but the workload. He has his own faction for obvious reasons, Iv's because he actually does stuff, and ACH's because he had to, even though that meant it's the unloved stepchild in terms of relevant content.

I don't intend to make the same mistake. When I implement factions it will be on my terms. When owls go in it will be on my terms.

If it would help, the setting is future-tense AU; more or less something I have agency to flesh out on my own without trying to bend over for everyone.


You literally just posted this as I was about to, so I didn't have time to read it.
Spoiler:
Professor Fenway wrote:Tiel, from what I understand you're getting at, you want to make a generic RTS with spaceships and that's it. No empires. No backstory. Just throwing ships at eachother and saying 'fight!' for some reason. Let me tell you why that's boring as shit and why we should use the RP (to an extent) as a backstory.

We're zero budget (or very low) which means that our graphics and gameplay will not be mediocre. That's fine. But we need to make up for that with backstory, lore. Look at older games, TEXT based games especially. Their ONLY savior was the story and lore. Even when it advanced, story and lore are essential for even a mediocre game. Look at the Curse of Monkey Island. It's graphics are mediocre but the story, lore, and comedy are put together very well, making it a good game. Look at SOASE. The three factions are DEEPLY fleshed out, with entire backstories and descriptions, making it an even better game. By throwing out the lore/backstory, we're throwing out the little talent we have: writing.

And using the RP is not unoriginal/wrong in anyway. Why? Because it is original. It is something we, as a forum, collectively created. It is well developed, fleshed out, expansive. It has a lot of information on many things. It's a springboard. It's an advantage, prior writing. Space Owls are done to death on this forum. I get that. But to others OUTSIDE this forum, if changed a bit, it's a pretty unique concept. Even if it is a bit unrealistic. Generic human alliances have been done to death and there's nothing we can do about it. HGE is unique too. Remember that space combat is also extremely unrealistic: it is WAY more efficient to sling missiles at each other from planetary surfaces.

The RP lore is an advantage we have, Tiel. I don't know why your so keen on removing it for the sake of originality; it is original. It is something that we, as the forum, created over years using our imaginations, other sources, and so on. Nobody else in the world has developed our universe the way we did. And if some of our ideas are unoriginal, so what? No idea is truly original anymore, we just put together ideas already done to death in different ways, in different stories. Zombies are ridiculously overdone, for example, but there are many different ways to do them still. So are alien invasions. Or combat simulators. Or RTS'. Or anything. All similar in concept, but they tell radically different stories in radically different ways. That makes the difference.

No backstory and lore for the RTS will make it unoriginal, uninventive, because it's been done before. Adding what we have will give it some shine, however small it is.
I'm in a rush right now, but from the looks of it you're drawing on a bunch of presumptions and some rather...misguided theorem. Perhaps I can attempt to look at what you're saying more deeply later although it seems I've already addressed your concerns (and attached baggage) above.

Professor Fenway
Texture Artist
Texture Artist
Posts:1506
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:47 pm
Affiliation:Novus Roma
Location:Neither Here nor There

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Professor Fenway » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:11 pm

I see. I'm merely trying to say not to discount it or throw it away without thought. It's a wealth of ideas, and has things we can add in. This whole argument is confusing anyway.

Prototype
Developer
Posts:2968
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:25 am
Affiliation:NSCD
IGN:Currently:Small_Bear
Location:Yes

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Prototype » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:38 pm

Not going to lie, but if we are going to do lore we should have one person handle it on their own. Involving multiple people is a bad idea for writing a story. Including canon as it is is therefore a terrible idea.

Even the lore I use myself has nary shag all to do with the RPs here, for the most parts it's stripped out to the point of redundancy, reduced to a few simple styling differences and names.

You're better making up lore to fit the game then a game to fit the lore. If that makes sense. Movie/book/anythingelseforthatmatter video game adaptations tend to suck.
Spoiler:
Image
Mistake Not... wrote: This isn't rocket science, *!
Image

Spoiler:
Image

ACH0225
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts:2312
Joined:Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:21 pm
Affiliation:Strigiforme
IGN:ACH0225
Location:Cuuyth

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by ACH0225 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:08 pm

I'd like it to be said that I haven't forced anyone to put my lore in things. I don't recall asking Proto to put it in, he just did. Whether from their lack of human-ness or lack of prior basis, the Strigiforme have become well known to us.

While other people seem to be making a fairly big deal out this, it matters little enough to me; sure, I'd like them in, so would everyone else like their factions in, but if they aren't added I won't be hurt. That said, it seems other people are identifying the Strigiforme with FC itself, which intrigues me.

While I know Cats has some sort of strange hatred of Strigiforme, I know that you(Tiel) probably don't. Maybe you think Strigiforme is overdone here, but as Fen said, Strigiforme is not done at all beyond here.


All this laid out, maybe some additional information about the way you have this planned would be good. I get the feeling we are working with some information missing, and if you could take a few minutes to scribble out a framework of your plans, we could all figure it out better.
Image
fr0stbyte124 wrote:5 months from now, I will publish a paper on an efficient method for rendering millions of owls to a screen.
mfw brony images
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Image

cannonfodder

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by cannonfodder » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:18 pm

ACH0225 wrote:I'd like it to be said that I haven't forced anyone to put my lore in things.
It's not you. It's people like this guy.
Shadowcatbot wrote:Remove Strigiforme? Welp goodbye FC, Hello Starcraft with only humans in space.

>Removes ponies
>Wants to remove owl, something very inherent to the core of futurecraft lore.

Fuck at this rate I'm just gonna suicide my faction and replace it with human faction #51846. Clearly making FC human space * 9000 will increase its ability to stand out from the other human space * 9000.

Professor Fenway
Texture Artist
Texture Artist
Posts:1506
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:47 pm
Affiliation:Novus Roma
Location:Neither Here nor There

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Professor Fenway » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:28 pm

Well, then give us (even a preliminary) plan. I'm totally ok with using differing lore. Just give us a basic idea of what you want to do, we'll weigh in on opinions and such.

But I can't agree completely with prototype on making the lore to fit the game, because that gives no direction for the game really. Let's take Starcraft for an example. Each race has a different style, theme, etcetera. We need to decide on those before we even start with the game, otherwise we're just laying down framework for how it works. Take the previous RTS we were (going) to make. We had the framework, yes, but we also laid out the general themes and ideas for how each faction worked. Sure, it doesn't make sense to fit a game to a story, but we're not fitting it to the story. We're fitting it to themes and concepts that came up in the story, which is different.

It's more "Hey, [FACTION X] would fit in the game. Let's lay out their themes and concepts and make them work with the game as we develop it," vs. "Hey, [FACTION X] needs to be in the game. Let's develop the game based entirely on how they already exist and mold it around that."

cats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts:1853
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Arania Exumai

Post by cats » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:01 pm

Commander Error wrote:While shadow may be roughly as subtle as an orbital strike, he has a point; if this is to be a Futurecraft RTS, at least a mention of the Strig is required. While Mercury might hate them with every fiber of his hate, they have been a fixture of the RPs and accepted lore for most/all of its existence.

At this point, I must ask: are we making a FutureCraft RTS, or a Genericus Sci-Fi RTS?

When I tried/failed to restart this, I saw it as an FC-lore based game, with the strengths, weaknesses, units, and backgrounds relevant to. I based it off the RPs because there is no 'FC lore' from the other parts of the forum; plus, a great many members have made and played factions within the RPs.

Really, while removing the Strigiforme isn't entirely a dealbreaker, it does shift this from 'FC-centric' to 'FC-based, partially original'. Not bad, per se, but not what most of us had in mind, either.

Just me .02 credits.
One of the big things that has always made our lore shitty: joke races and their enablers. Space owls somehow managed to stick around through the purging of ponies and Sonic the Hedgehog characters, that doesn't make them a good candidate for anything like this. The only merit of using giant owls is that they're memorable because of the "... what?" factor.

And I'll be honest; we have a few (few) good ideas, but the majority of our "official" RPs and factions mean about as much as a pebble lying on top of a turd. Taking the strigiforme out of the game doesn't make it not FC.

We have plenty of races and factions we could use. Batii, Kylathans, and Trackuul to name a few off the top of my head.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

Vinyl
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts:3217
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:54 pm
Affiliation:Hexalan
IGN:PCaptainRexK
Location:Hexalan

Re: Arania Exumai

Post by Vinyl » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:25 pm

Mercury Steam wrote:We have plenty of races and factions we could use. Batii, Kylathans, and Trackuul to name a few off the top of my head.
>Plenty of factions
>Examples are all his

Not that you're wrong, of course, it's just a shame none of the other factions to arise meet your steep criteria, or at least do so as well as make a lasting impression.
cats wrote:I literally cannot be wrong about this fictional universe

Professor Fenway
Texture Artist
Texture Artist
Posts:1506
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:47 pm
Affiliation:Novus Roma
Location:Neither Here nor There

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Professor Fenway » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:41 pm

Kylathans are mine. Not his. Just throwing that out there.

And vinyl, practically NOBODY has made a believable, interesting, not outlandish alien faction. The rest are all human (or human based). Can't complain about that, really.

Vinyl
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts:3217
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:54 pm
Affiliation:Hexalan
IGN:PCaptainRexK
Location:Hexalan

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Vinyl » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:53 pm

It's not my fault I don't recall the maker of a race I've only heard about like once.

And aliens aren't what I'm talking about, it's factions.
cats wrote:I literally cannot be wrong about this fictional universe

Dr. Mackeroth
Designer
Designer
Posts:397
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:59 pm
Affiliation:Alteran
Location:In the Holy Citadel of Altera

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by Dr. Mackeroth » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:56 pm

I vote we develop new and sensible factions for the new and sensible game. Unless we want to inject some humour into it? Tongue-in-check can let you get away with a lot, provided it isn't gratingly stupid.
This is a signature.

cannonfodder

Re: Bellum Stellarum (Working Title)

Post by cannonfodder » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:01 am

Four sides:

Joint Sectors Pact (colloquially known as JSP)

Splinter of ACCORD members alienated due to various reasons, chief among them a refusal to forgive those who surrendered during the Avis War. Active in securing own borders against numerous foes, but not much beyond that. Has unfortunate but necessary ties to the underworld thanks to their singular nature.

"Strength in numbers"

Seraphic Otium (colloquially known as Otium)

Originally a military oversight committee of Commonwealth member-states chartered after the Avis War in the wake of ACCORD. Broke off due to bureaucratic concerns; isolationist and heavily militarized. Rumored to be nurturing growth in systems conquered from the invaders.

"Only in death does service end"

Galactic Accord of Astral Affiliation (colloquially known as ACCORD)

Following the Avis War, vestiges of the Commonwealth drew up this document as a guideline for a new government. Following numerous secessions, the coalition tends to go by what separated them from the rest, maybe out of irony? Poses as the legitimate authority in the galaxy, though has obvious competition for the position.

"Peace through power"

Commonwealth Remnant (colloquially known as Remnant)

A group of former Commonwealth nation-states cut off from communication in the final push of the Avis War and thus uninvolved in the aftermath. Decries ACCORD as an illegal derision of the former Commonwealth and so stylize themselves as the last 'remnant' of the organization. Has the unique distinction of having re-established control with the GUARDIAN network due to several members having been heavily immersed in the project.

"A chain is only as strong as the weakest link"

Post Reply