It will look just like this

If it's relevant to Futurecraft, it goes here.
Forum rules
- This area is for general discussion; ideas and ships go elsewhere. Offending threads will be removed without prior notice.
- Unnecessary topics will be deleted or locked without warning.
cats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts:1853
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:03 pm
Re: It will look just like this

Post by cats » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:01 pm

I thought we would have to scale a system down to cartooney size anyway. It should take a few minutes to travel from planet to planet going just under speed of light.

There could be multiple forms of FTL with different pros and cons. Hyperspace/slipspace, get there faster, not very accurate, best for interstellar travel. Warp- accurate, but slower. Gate- magic, near instantaneous, gate-to-gate travel (at a cost). Jump- less accurate than warp, but faster.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

User avatar
fr0stbyte124
Developer
Posts:727
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:39 am
Affiliation:Aye-Aye

Re: It will look just like this

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:13 pm

If you make every point of interest light-minutes apart, the only way to get from one to the next effectively is to let your autopilot take you to pre-defined locations. I was hoping for something a bit more hands on, or at least offering more freedom.

User avatar
Iv121
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts:2414
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:40 pm
Affiliation:UTN
Location:-> HERE <-

Re: It will look just like this

Post by Iv121 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:56 pm

I'm amazed this actually off-topiced from off-topicness to something useful for a change :)
They're watching ... Image

"I am forbidden tag" -CvN

cats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts:1853
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: It will look just like this

Post by cats » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:58 pm

Iv121 wrote:I'm amazed this actually off-topiced from off-topicness to something useful for a change :)
SHOOSH! You'll scare the useful away!

@fr0st: How fast could a ship actually go in FC?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

User avatar
fr0stbyte124
Developer
Posts:727
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:39 am
Affiliation:Aye-Aye

Re: It will look just like this

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:20 pm

Technically, they aren't moving at all. The only thing that cares about speed are collision checks. For the most part those are pretty straightforward, but if you are going fast enough that there is a chance you will completely pass through something between two ticks, you have to do more expensive testing or increase the number of tests per tick. Neither is a very appealing prospect.

For areas with other things in them, but you are never in any risk of hitting, I would wild guess the physics speed limit should be 50-100 m/s, though this will vary considerably with the size of the ship entities. For areas where full collision is getting checked, like you are passing between buildings or through a cave, I would guess it should be 15-30 m/s.

Empty areas where you can prove nothing will be in the way without checking every tick, there would be no speed limit, so between planets and in orbit (while not near any other satellites).

Also, things like missiles which are meant to collide and have a deterministic flight path could move a lot faster if we some preliminary pathing before they are launched.

cats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts:1853
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: It will look just like this

Post by cats » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:16 pm

fr0stbyte124 wrote:Technically, they aren't moving at all. The only thing that cares about speed are collision checks. For the most part those are pretty straightforward, but if you are going fast enough that there is a chance you will completely pass through something between two ticks, you have to do more expensive testing or increase the number of tests per tick. Neither is a very appealing prospect.

For areas with other things in them, but you are never in any risk of hitting, I would wild guess the physics speed limit should be 50-100 m/s, though this will vary considerably with the size of the ship entities. For areas where full collision is getting checked, like you are passing between buildings or through a cave, I would guess it should be 15-30 m/s.

Empty areas where you can prove nothing will be in the way without checking every tick, there would be no speed limit, so between planets and in orbit (while not near any other satellites).

Also, things like missiles which are meant to collide and have a deterministic flight path could move a lot faster if we some preliminary pathing before they are launched.
Systems could be scaled with the maximum speed in space with minimum debris.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

User avatar
Talon93
Cadet
Cadet
Posts:47
Joined:Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:17 pm
IGN:Talon93
Location:Hidden somewhere in this text.

Re: It will look just like this

Post by Talon93 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:04 am

fr0stbyte124 wrote:I imagine it matters more on the method you use for FTL, seeing as how conventional physics has no model for how matter traveling faster than light would work. If it's a wormhole, you would be moving at non-relativistic speeds, so you would see everything. If you were increasing the speed limit of light, you may not even experience redshift.
http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/press-releases/2013/january/star-wars-what-would-hyperspace-travel-really-look-like
Anything can be learnt, it is simply how willing you are to learn.
Image
Dramatic Bold Italic Underline!

User avatar
fr0stbyte124
Developer
Posts:727
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:39 am
Affiliation:Aye-Aye

Re: It will look just like this

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:23 am

I can't believe they were able to publish that trash, even if it is just to their school's journal. Even without getting into the books and the extended universe, it's explicitly shown that ships in hyperspace can travel at hundreds of thousands of times faster than the speed of light, so it stands to reason that assuming the Millennium Falcon's velocity is 0.9999995c so that your textbook's formulas work is sort of exactly the opposite of "thinking outside the box". There's no indication what you are seeing outside the window is even caused by the ship moving. It could simply be an optical illusion as space bends around you. Hyperspace is depicted as an empty space in which the rest of the universe can't be directly observed. There's no frame of reference to tell if these ships are actually moving at all, nor is there any proof that the ship is physically accelerating prior to entering hyperspace.

The worst part is, there actually are hypothetical models for how hyperspace could work, in which a stationary vessel is trapped in an envelope of space-time moving faster than light, which is pretty close to how hyperspace is depicted in Star Wars. If you want to find out how something is going to work, try and use a proper model, and for the love of god, don't just make s*** up just because it's easier. That article is crap and I cannot say enough against it to make up for it existing in the first place.

Hey Last Jedi, you wanna weigh in on this?

User avatar
Iv121
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts:2414
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:40 pm
Affiliation:UTN
Location:-> HERE <-

Re: It will look just like this

Post by Iv121 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:41 am

I don't actually care how hyperspace looks like , only about how it looks like in our game , now the real question is how do we want it to look like ?
They're watching ... Image

"I am forbidden tag" -CvN

cats
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts:1853
Joined:Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: It will look just like this

Post by cats » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:39 am

Iv121 wrote:I don't actually care how hyperspace looks like , only about how it looks like in our game , now the real question is how do we want it to look like ?
You know what you see when you hold your breath and shut your eyes? It should look like that with more purple.

I thought Hyperspace worked like the Slip in Halo, with an alternate dimension, or a wormhole drive. Then again, I don't know that much about Star Wars.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

User avatar
Talon93
Cadet
Cadet
Posts:47
Joined:Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:17 pm
IGN:Talon93
Location:Hidden somewhere in this text.

Re: It will look just like this

Post by Talon93 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:05 am

I love how Fr0st get's so passionate on hating something no-one cares about XD
Anyway, concerning the op: I don't know anything about anything and are also retarded but I'm just gonna say the word: Fractals -question mark-
Anything can be learnt, it is simply how willing you are to learn.
Image
Dramatic Bold Italic Underline!

 ҉ 
Commodore
Commodore
Posts:1574
Joined:Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:50 am
Affiliation:Kzinti Empire
Location:Kzinhome

Re: It will look just like this

Post by  ҉  » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:01 am

fr0stbyte124 wrote:Hey Last Jedi, you wanna weigh in on this?
The problem is that their basic idea is fundamentally incorrect. Their article says "In the films, spacecraft are equipped with hyperdrives which allow them to approach the speed of light." Strictly speaking that's true, but then the ships pass the speed of light and enter hyperspace, so...

The physics of hyperspace travel aren't clearly defined even in the Star Wars universe, but it's pretty safe to say that they aren't based on the physics of this universe, so trying to model them as such is stupid. They have a picture of what it might look like it you were going at nearly the speed of light, which ships in Star Wars do not do. There's no reason whatsoever for hyperspace to look like anything other than what it does.

Relevant articles: [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdrive]Hyperdrive[/url], [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace]Hyperspace[/url]
;.'.;'::.;:".":;",,;':",;

(Kzinti script, as best as can be displayed in Human characters, translated roughly as "For the Patriarchy!")

User avatar
Talon93
Cadet
Cadet
Posts:47
Joined:Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:17 pm
IGN:Talon93
Location:Hidden somewhere in this text.

Re: It will look just like this

Post by Talon93 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:07 am

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:
fr0stbyte124 wrote:Hey Last Jedi, you wanna weigh in on this?
The problem is that their basic idea is fundamentally incorrect. Their article says "In the films, spacecraft are equipped with hyperdrives which allow them to approach the speed of light." Strictly speaking that's true, but then the ships pass the speed of light and enter hyperspace, so...

The physics of hyperspace travel aren't clearly defined even in the Star Wars universe, but it's pretty safe to say that they aren't based on the physics of this universe, so trying to model them as such is stupid. They have a picture of what it might look like it you were going at nearly the speed of light, which ships in Star Wars do not do. There's no reason whatsoever for hyperspace to look like anything other than what it does.

Relevant articles: [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdrive]Hyperdrive[/url], [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace]Hyperspace[/url]
Nevermind, turns out people do care. So anyway this will leave us with the FTL in FC looking like...?
Anything can be learnt, it is simply how willing you are to learn.
Image
Dramatic Bold Italic Underline!

User avatar
Keon
Developer
Posts:662
Joined:Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:09 pm
Affiliation:Inactive
IGN:ducky215

Re: It will look just like this

Post by Keon » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:39 am

Talon93 wrote:
Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:
fr0stbyte124 wrote:Hey Last Jedi, you wanna weigh in on this?
The problem is that their basic idea is fundamentally incorrect. Their article says "In the films, spacecraft are equipped with hyperdrives which allow them to approach the speed of light." Strictly speaking that's true, but then the ships pass the speed of light and enter hyperspace, so...

The physics of hyperspace travel aren't clearly defined even in the Star Wars universe, but it's pretty safe to say that they aren't based on the physics of this universe, so trying to model them as such is stupid. They have a picture of what it might look like it you were going at nearly the speed of light, which ships in Star Wars do not do. There's no reason whatsoever for hyperspace to look like anything other than what it does.

Relevant articles: [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdrive]Hyperdrive[/url], [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace]Hyperspace[/url]
Nevermind, turns out people do care. So anyway this will leave us with the FTL in FC looking like...?
Stand by for phase jump.
- I can be reached as ducky215 on minecraft forums -

User avatar
fr0stbyte124
Developer
Posts:727
Joined:Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:39 am
Affiliation:Aye-Aye

Re: It will look just like this

Post by fr0stbyte124 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:20 pm

I haven't given it much thought. If we wanted, we could even make it a hole in space you can see a different server through, portal-style. Each world is rendered in a separate process so there is literally no additional cost for doing it that way.

But if you want hyperspace, or a Star Trek effect, let me know.
Also, someone needs to get Mackeroth in here. Those sort of design decisions are ultimately his call.

Post Reply