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Post yer RPs here.
cats
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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by cats » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:05 pm

Well I don't really see how something as important as psionic ability can be held within a measurable percentage of a population. Seems like something that would either be had by a race or not with rare discrepancies. I can kind of see how there would be deviations in intentionally modified species or those that have been in their tech age for a few dozen millennia, long enough to devolve enough for the biological apparatus to have a significant chance of nonfunctionality. It would also probably be much rarer than what we're seeing here. I mean, it's not particularly important right now since only a select few of these races will be available in the first iteration of the system we're using, and it'll be kept relatively simple because it seems when "psionic" is mentioned half of what springs to mind is good ideas and the other half is one big, fundamental plot hole.

Vinyl, your strategy seems like it has been adjusted using RTS games and probably wouldn't actually work for any length of time. Just an observation, won't have much effect since this'll be an individual RP.
Ivan2006 wrote:Uh, yeah, since the "originality or GTFO" rule isn't in place I'm still doing Mobians
That's cute, tell me more about how you're using the nonsensical cartoon characters that I'm now apparently being forced to add to my RP that I'm writing and managing myself.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Shadowcatbot » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:02 pm

Ivan you should really just go through and make a parody faction that looks suspiciously similar but doesn't actually use anything sonic/mlp.
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Ivan2006
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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Ivan2006 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:09 am

I see the issue seems to be the name. Because I really did my best to iron out the unrealism out of Mobians, might as well change the name entirely.
Same for the EE, while I'm at it. Gonna brainstorm some names now.

Edit: Done now, at this point you need knowledge of my history of doing Mobians to recognize them. And I did give a resonable explanation on how they evolved, so realism should not be a major issue.
And the thing with "psionics as a percentage" and "degrading abilities": Many species either elevated their psionics into a saint-like status or condemned them as "witches" or similar, both not ideal for spreading the genome, while the Macaians embraced the psionics, giving their numbers a great boost in early society. (you know, back when natural selection was still a relevant thing)
Even later, when selection was more or less defeated by technology, the advantages pf psionics were immense; major wars would always see an increased survival rate of psionics versus the overal population, psionics had an easier time gettgin into the upper class, all those factors that allow a genome to remain dominant even in a technologically advanced society.
And you can easily go to humans and test 1000 people, and you can go to Macaians and test 1000 people there. Unless those humans are a psi-ops unit, chances are you're gonna find the significaltly more psionics in the Macaian group.
Quotes:
Spoiler:
CMA wrote:IT'S MY HOT BODY AND I DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT.
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Daynel wrote: you can talk gay and furry to me any time
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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Error » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:13 am

@cats IIRC psionics are similar to PSI soldiers in XCOM - not everyone has it, just a percentage of the population. Theoretically, any sufficiently advanced (Novans, NR, maybe Zuguth) civilization could 'activate' or alter their genetics to increase that to 100%.
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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by cats » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:56 am

T.O. Bright wrote:@cats IIRC psionics are similar to PSI soldiers in XCOM - not everyone has it, just a percentage of the population. Theoretically, any sufficiently advanced (Novans, NR, maybe Zuguth) civilization could 'activate' or alter their genetics to increase that to 100%.
That's the problem. A psionic race would be close to 100% with non-able individuals being abmormal, a non-psionic race would be 0% with able individuals being next to nonexistent. It's not a neurological hitchhiker's thumb or detached earlobe, it's like a combination of vision and speech apparatus.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Professor Fenway » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:02 pm

I agree. Psionics should be sufficiently rare- less than 1% of the population, maybe 0.01% or lower. 1% of the human population today would be about 7 million people, 0.1% would be 700,000, 0.01 would be 70,000, 0.01 would be 7,000, 0.001 would be 700, 0.0001 would be 70, 0.00001 would be 7 psionic individuals. And considering that most populations will eventually be in the several billions, psionic aptitude for non psionic races will between 0.00001% to 0.01%, depending on other circumstances.

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Error » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:11 pm

Editing Novans for 100% psionic rate. Genetic engineering is easy to them, so everyone'll have it (what with our realism fanatics here).
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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Ivan2006 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:22 pm

Edited Macaian psionic rate to "over 90%"
Quotes:
Spoiler:
CMA wrote:IT'S MY HOT BODY AND I DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT.
Tiel wrote:hey now no need to be rough
Daynel wrote: you can talk gay and furry to me any time
CMA wrote:And I can't fuck myself, my ass is currently occupied

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by ACH0225 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm

I figured it was just a genetic mutation like eye colour, and that a certain 30% of most populations have it. Strigiforme have one of the lowest psionic rates in the galaxy, AFAIK, something like 1-in-5 billion or less.
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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Ivan2006 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:57 pm

Try to reason it with soemthing else than "le psi-tree" this time tho, I think we're going for more realism.
Quotes:
Spoiler:
CMA wrote:IT'S MY HOT BODY AND I DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT.
Tiel wrote:hey now no need to be rough
Daynel wrote: you can talk gay and furry to me any time
CMA wrote:And I can't fuck myself, my ass is currently occupied

cats
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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by cats » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:22 pm

A genetic mutation isn't going to give something that kind of ability. Pigment mutation is only a few misplaced pairs, this would be more like growing an extra set of functioning eyes. Fen's estimate for psionic occurrence in non-psionic races isn't too far off, but that would still only be empaths and maybe telepaths. Telekinesis is in a whole new ballpark, though i'd say maybe not entirely impossible.

So psionic occurrence in non-psions: way less than 1%

Non-psionic individuals in psionic races would be something like blindness in humans. So 99% or greater, not accounting for the varying degrees of aptitude.

The exceptions to those rules would exist in races that have been modified to have innate psionics. The characteristic or mechanism of inheritance wouldn't be perfect nor stable, resulting in the ability being dependent upon a roll of the genetic dice.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Professor Fenway » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:09 pm

I think some lore bit or another a while ago established that psionic ability was due, in part, to specific patterns of the nervous system and the body that resonate with subspace, allowing for the abilities it contains due to being able to sense/feel energy in subspace due to these patterns. But it wasn't specifically tied to a specific gene, because DNA from all over seemed to contribute to the pattern's formation, and the pattern's development was even influenced and hindered/enhanced by the way one develops (Epigenetics- look it up). This makes it much more a roll of the genetic dice because the pattern could be developed by any part of the genome.

This solves several problems; first, it establishes why some psionics are more powerful than others or have different abilities; it depends on the extent and resonance of the developed pattern. Second, it establishes why they are so rare, because this pattern has to be rather specific (in a certain subspace frequency) for the person to be able to sense the psionic energy. And even then, without technology, its useless. And without a psionic, the technology is useless. Think of an antenna tuned to the right frequency/wavelength. It can sense (telepathy or true empathy) but it can't send signals of its own apart from normal static that all living beings send out. But by adding to the antenna various components, in this case psionic amplifiers, we can make our own signals and do things. Suddenly telekinesis, pyrokinesis, it all becomes possible.

But without the psionic, the technology cannot do anything useful. You can activate it and it might do something, but you have no control over what it does or where it goes, or if it even works. It might kill you, even. A psionic is hardly useful without technology, but technology is useless without the psionic.

Now, over time, dedicated research may find what causes the psionic pattern to form in the first place, and maybe even a few genetic markers. Maybe you need to expose the subject to Zero-delta-beta radiation less than 30 seconds after conception, for example. Maybe he needs to be fed unknown substance 3645 for three years. Maybe people with schizophrenia are more likely to be psionically attuned. And by learning, you can increase psionic rates. Maybe you can learn how to artificially replicate the patterns in machines or in non-psionic organisms, allowing for more ability beyond simple telepathy and true empathy (the technology I spoke of).

And a purely psionic race becomes simpler; they evolved to fit the psionic pattern very specifically. They are designed to achieve said pattern, and will do so 99% of the time regardless of upbringing or nutrition or epigenetics.

And an extra bit: The Enerjak point. What is this? This happens when a psionic becomes too attuned to the subspace frequency. Information overload, corruption, and general insanity result from this because the subject, more likely than not, cannot handle the full extent of the resonance. Nothing will ever reach this point naturally because it requires an exceptionally precise pattern. You're only going to reach it if you're trying to.

TL;DR
-Psionic ability is caused by very specific neural patterns that resonate in subspace. Pattern development depends on genome to an extent and the individual's development through life.

-Psionic power depends on how 'attuned' one is to the resonance frequency in subspace. But if you are too attuned, Enerjak point.

-Basic psionic ability is purely sensing, such as with empathy and telepathy. Further ability can only be accomplished through psionic technology. And the tech's power depends on how attuned it is, but this time, there is no Enerjak point.

-Psionic technology is practically useless without a psionic to guide it, with exceptions. If you can artificially replicate the pattern (VERY DIFFICULT) you can make a nonliving (but much less powerful) psionic device.

-Psionic races evolved to be specifically attuned psionically, achieving near 100% rates, while other species are less than 1%.

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Ivan2006 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:42 am

Petition to rename the "Enerjak-point" due to it being named after a demigod being with several incarnations in the Sonic the Hedgehog comic series: suggestions welcome.
Quotes:
Spoiler:
CMA wrote:IT'S MY HOT BODY AND I DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT.
Tiel wrote:hey now no need to be rough
Daynel wrote: you can talk gay and furry to me any time
CMA wrote:And I can't fuck myself, my ass is currently occupied

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by Shadowcatbot » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:04 am

"Your fucked-point"
In yo ceiling, stealin yo wires



Do not open. Ever. At all. Enter at your own risk to life and limb.
Trigger warning
Bot gore warning
Memetic biohazard
Error bait
Spoiler:
[Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted][Redacted]

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Re: Another list of species stuff.

Post by cats » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:03 am

Tying subspace to psionics creates a few problems. The most evident of those is that it exclusively defines and restricts "psionics" to biological interaction to subspace rather than direct interaction between the mind and universe in general. Apparatus could be made to fit a non-psionic that give him/her the same abilities of a natural psionic (or just an amp for a psionic) that uses something like hardlight or low-energy gravity wells to perform telekinesis with no connection to subspace necessary. It's possible that telepathy or true empathy could result from naturally amplified EM signals; again, no connection to subspace necessary. Restricting "psionics" means that all psionic species would have to develop (or, in rare cases of individuals, mutate) the same exact, fundamental pattern of neurons, which excludes the possibility of analogous structures that would be more likely to evolve in separate domains of life. It also punches a couple of holes in the concept of subspace being a nigh-inaccessible pit of energy that serves purely as a medium of communication until interdimensional drives advance to near god-tier. That being said, subspace isn't inflexible, it's just that having psionics so easily intertwined with subspace challenges the idea that tech-advanced ships aren't.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a completely ad-hoc plot device"
— David Langford
Spoiler:
cannonfodder wrote:it's funny because sonic's face looks like a * and faces aren't supposed to look like a *

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