"WE" discuss RPs

[Vinyl]

Error, shut up, the grown up and the teenager are talking.

[Iv121]

Well if they didn’t satisfy you you ask about what didn’t satisfy you:
"How are you going to prevent this pipe from leaking ?"
"Well to prevent the pipe from leaking we will close that valve"
"But how are you planning on using this water then ?"

This way you develop the question, you don't step on the same spot in hope to get a new answer, the answer will be the same if the q is the same.

[Vinyl]

The conversation is irrelevant if the person who wants the answer doesn't think the answer is good, but the answer doesn't change.
"How are you gonig to prevent this pipe from leaking ?"
"Well to prevent the pipe from leaking we will close the walve"
"But the pipe is what's broken."
"We close the valve to stop the leak."
Etc...

[Iv121]

Well no mate the answer is perfect, closing the pipe will stop the leak however:

"But its just a temporary solution, you need to fix the pipe to solve the problem at its core"

Ofc its possible the person you hold conv with is totally stupid and he gives answers unrelated to the topic but I assume we are all intelligent ppl right ? Instead of doing it what I just encouraged you to do with the topic of "How we discuss matters" just try to apply it to the real topic at hand "stats in RPs". Yeah yeah notice you developed the q depending on the answer I gave you right now and we were getting somewhere productive.

[ACH0225]

@Iv- On empires being killed off. It can happen. It almost did; the Strig could have finished off the MQR or most of the Novans. I chose not to because that wouldn't be as much fun, and because I also know that doing so would cause bad things to happen. The current ERP system works, and those involved enjoy it or quit; we don't force you to do it, after all. If you want to make a numbers RP, nobody will stop you, it's just that not everyone will join, just like not everyone has joined the current ERP.

My problems with Numbers RP is that I personally cannot be arsed to remember numbers. I dislike maths, and will generally avoid them. If someone else or a program did it, maybe, but remembering even the simplest strings of numbers is beyond the level of effort I will commit. I also feel that numbers cannot express the variety of ideas that the written word can; saying a fleet with composition X beats fleet Y because of formula Z is boring, and entirely predictable. Even if you were to write interesting text, you would still be able to predict the outcome with near certainty. Word ERPs allow someone to think outside the box, metaphorically, and consider factors numbers cannot predict, like the hesitation of an individual gunner, or the skill of an admiral, ect ect.

[Iv121]

"We don't want to sit down and calculate and keep track of stuff and do this and do that and do blahblahblah". But lets think about it for a moment, is it that hard ?

Is it that hard to write down some simple numbers on the front page ? To make 1 + 1 when you "make your fleet bigger" or stuff ? You do all of it anyway, if you want to be part of an RP you need to note when ppl build something, make a move do a thing. You pretty much already do 90% of the job, all that is left for you is to call things by their name and say that when you built yet another cruiser (with a name that doesn't tell a single damn thing to the person who reads it) you added +1 to your fleet stat, not only it is a much quicker, time saving and informative way to say the same thing, the fact your fleet stat is now 10 actually means that in TWO CHARACTERS, '1' '0', you keep track of 10 paragraphs that describe the construction of 10 ships.

OFC if you dont do it in an organized way its gonna be a pain hence you got the OP page with the stats on it, no need to remember anything, you just go there and see it all. For the GMs it might be a bit of a hassle however this will save you, the GM, a lot of hassle in the future when it will come to combat, you have good tools at your disposal to go TOGETHER with your writing, not IN PLACE of it, they ease up the job for everyone in the long run.

"But Iv RP is all about writing a story and shit" well what prevents you from writing the same story ? You just add 1 sentence above it "fleet +1" that makes everyone's job easier, the story is still there.

[ACH0225]

"We don't want to sit down and calculate and keep track of stuff and do this and do that and do blahblahblah". But lets think about it for a moment, is it that hard ?

Is it that hard to write down some simple numbers on the front page ? To make 1 + 1 when you "make your fleet bigger" or stuff ? You do all of it anyway, if you want to be part of an RP you need to note when ppl build something, make a move do a thing. You pretty much already do 90% of the job, all that is left for you is to call things by their name and say that when you built yet another cruiser (with a name that doesn't tell a single damn thing to the person who reads it) you added +1 to your fleet stat, not only it is a much quicker, time saving and informative way to say the same thing, the fact your fleet stat is now 10 actually means that in TWO CHARACTERS, '1' '0', you keep track of 10 paragraphs that describe the construction of 10 ships.

OFC if you dont do it in an organized way its gonna be a pain hence you got the OP page with the stats on it, no need to remember anything, you just go there and see it all. For the GMs it might be a bit of a hassle however this will save you, the GM, a lot of hassle in the future when it will come to combat, you have good tools at your disposal to go TOGETHER with your writing, not IN PLACE of it, they ease up the job for everyone in the long run.

"But Iv RP is all about writing a story and shit" well what prevents you from writing the same story ? You just add 1 sentence above it "fleet +1" that makes everyone's job easier, the story is still there.

remembering even the simplest strings of numbers is beyond the level of effort I will commit.

So is writing down a string of numbers, reading a string of numbers, thinking about a string of numbers, and using a string of numbers.

I also feel that numbers cannot express the variety of ideas that the written word can; saying a fleet with composition X beats fleet Y because of formula Z is boring, and entirely predictable. Even if you were to write interesting text, you would still be able to predict the outcome with near certainty. Word ERPs allow someone to think outside the box, metaphorically, and consider factors numbers cannot predict, like the hesitation of an individual gunner, or the skill of an admiral, ect ect.

[Vinyl]

@Before ACH came in

All I'm trying to do is bridge a gap and dissect an Iv.
Anyways, let's go back to our pipe example.
If I'm understanding you correctly, and filling in the gaps your wording has left, you find that "Well to prevent the pipe from leaking we will close the walve" is a suitable answer and will serve as a fix until the problem is rooted.
Let's assume this is a special pipe that requires an expertise to correct, and that the answerer is the expert. When the person with the problem asks the expert for an answer, and they give an answer that the one with the problem knows won't work, and they know this from what they've gleaned on the subject of pipe repair, but the expert is adamant in giving the same answer and become enraged when the person with the problem keeps asking them the same damn question, the expert finally tells the person that the valve is a temporary solution, and will ultimately need to replace the pipe. The person then asks the expert why they didn't just tell them that in the first place, and that the valve was irrelevant in the actual solution.
We can apply this by you, instead of simply giving the same answer to the same question, the counterpart of the valve fix, and give the pipe fix instead.

[Iv121]

Go read the above owl, you asked the same questions ? Get the same answers.

"We don't want to sit down and calculate and keep track of stuff and do this and do that and do blahblahblah". But lets think about it for a moment, is it that hard ?

Is it that hard to write down some simple numbers on the front page ? To make 1 + 1 when you "make your fleet bigger" or stuff ? You do all of it anyway, if you want to be part of an RP you need to note when ppl build something, make a move do a thing. You pretty much already do 90% of the job, all that is left for you is to call things by their name and say that when you built yet another cruiser (with a name that doesn't tell a single damn thing to the person who reads it) you added +1 to your fleet stat, not only it is a much quicker, time saving and informative way to say the same thing, the fact your fleet stat is now 10 actually means that in TWO CHARACTERS, '1' '0', you keep track of 10 paragraphs that describe the construction of 10 ships.

OFC if you dont do it in an organized way its gonna be a pain hence you got the OP page with the stats on it, no need to remember anything, you just go there and see it all. For the GMs it might be a bit of a hassle however this will save you, the GM, a lot of hassle in the future when it will come to combat, you have good tools at your disposal to go TOGETHER with your writing, not IN PLACE of it, they ease up the job for everyone in the long run.

"But Iv RP is all about writing a story and shit" well what prevents you from writing the same story ? You just add 1 sentence above it "fleet +1" that makes everyone's job easier, the story is still there.

Now state what didn’t satisfy you. The only thing I get partially is you refusing to remember even a single number, but you write them all in the OP as stated above, no need to remember anything, its all included for you.

[Iv121]

@Before ACH came in

All I'm trying to do is bridge a gap and dissect an Iv.
Anyways, let's go back to our pipe example.
If I'm understanding you correctly, and filling in the gaps your wording has left, you find that "Well to prevent the pipe from leaking we will close the walve" is a suitable answer and will serve as a fix until the problem is rooted.
Let's assume this is a special pipe that requires an expertise to correct, and that the answerer is the expert. When the person with the problem asks the expert for an answer, and they give an answer that the one with the problem knows won't work, and they know this from what they've gleaned on the subject of pipe repair, but the expert is adamant in giving the same answer and become enraged when the person with the problem keeps asking them the same damn question, the expert finally tells the person that the valve is a temporary solution, and will ultimately need to replace the pipe. The person then asks the expert why they didn't just tell them that in the first place, and that the valve was irrelevant in the actual solution.
We can apply this by you, instead of simply giving the same answer to the same question, the counterpart of the valve fix, and give the pipe fix instead.

Ah ? I totally lost your point there, you seem to go too far from the question anyway, we talk about the RP not pipes (Yeah I get its just an example however it leads to god knows where ...)

[ACH0225]

I also feel that numbers cannot express the variety of ideas that the written word can; saying a fleet with composition X beats fleet Y because of formula Z is boring, and entirely predictable. Even if you were to write interesting text, you would still be able to predict the outcome with near certainty. Word ERPs allow someone to think outside the box, metaphorically, and consider factors numbers cannot predict, like the hesitation of an individual gunner, or the skill of an admiral, ect ect.

Number RPs are boring, just like regular numbers.

[Vinyl]

Ah ? I totally lost your point there, you seem to go too far from the question anyway, we talk about the RP not pipes (Yeah I get its just an example however it leads to god knows where ...)

It leads back to the issue at hand, as I pointed out in the last sentence.

We can apply this by you, instead of simply giving the same answer to the same question, the counterpart of the valve fix, and give the pipe fix instead.

[Iv121]

@ owl

Well ships don't combust randomly in battle, there is a chance ofc , 1 in 100000000, and you will prob only enrage the person that you did it to him, it feels unfair. OFC you can roll a dice if you want and adjust your answer based on it, you are the GM nobody prevents you from doing it, only reason for your story to be predictable is because you wanted it to be such. If you'd ask me I would prob roll a dice from time to time but I won't drastically alter it so that a person who was clearly not meant to win suddenly defeats the enemy, instead Id roll a dice for stuff such as the fleet retreating early in the face of the enemy abandoning the admiral's orders, this way your fleet is saved from certain doom however your positions are given out early, a mix of good and bad and the outcome is totally unexpected! It might develop a whole new situation there !

@ Vinyl

This will be hard considering I hope to prepare here the ground for the pipe fix ...

[Vinyl]

Except, that it can be rather difficult to prepare for the unknown. The unknown being the 'pipe fix'.

[Iv121]

You know it’s a lot of effort to make that thing, it will be really painful to see it get dumped. OFC cant know until you try but if the risk of it getting dumped is too big I might consider discontinuing it, perhaps making ripped concept version first but even that is not easy, I have quite high demands from the program ...