"WE" discuss RPs

[Iv121]

You wanted me to make a separate thread here we go.

What annoys me the most about your position regarding stats in RPs is the hypocrisy that surrounds your answers. "WE hate numbers they make stuff complicated they overburden stuff we don't want to do this that we don’t want to think !", Id like to remind you all of the equally successful RPs that did have stats in them. "Yeah they were all failures they all fell apart they were all this they were all that", Id like to remind you that all of the RPs that had stats in them fell due to external factors (Ironically almost all of them fell apart when the forum fell down), the last example of an empire RP that fell apart just couse it didn’t work was an empire RP that DIDNT have stats and hence the broken judging system that was supposed to decide which side won the battles simply collapsed on itself.

The prejudice of the mods is apparent in every single example of RPs without stats and even in those with them. The only way to get rid of that prejudice is to remove the GMs from the game, the one who dictates the rules cannot be the one to play the game. Even when the GM is not directly involved giving out a fair verdict becomes almost impossible for them with no real reference points. End result if there is no real advantage for one side or another we end up with a bloodshed where everyone practically loses because this way nobody can blame the GM that the verdict was blast, its a result that in reality is a rarity however here it takes front stage .

The stats don't prevent all those issues however they help to solve a great amount of cases such as this and they allow the GM to take part in the game. The only reason I can see for ppl to not want then is because of the "We dont want to think" part. "We don't want to sit down and calculate and keep track of stuff and do this and do that and do blahblahblah". But lets think about it for a moment, is it that hard ?

Is it that hard to write down some simple numbers on the front page ? To make 1 + 1 when you "make your fleet bigger" or stuff ? You do all of it anyway, if you want to be part of an RP you need to note when ppl build something, make a move do a thing. You pretty much already do 90% of the job, all that is left for you is to call things by their name and say that when you built yet another cruiser (with a name that doesn't tell a single damn thing to the person who reads it) you added +1 to your fleet stat, not only it is a much quicker, time saving and informative way to say the same thing, the fact your fleet stat is now 10 actually means that in TWO CHARACTERS, '1' '0', you keep track of 10 paragraphs that describe the construction of 10 ships.

"But Iv RP is all about writing a story and shit" well what prevents you from writing the same story ? You just add 1 sentence above it "fleet +1" that makes everyone's job easier, the story is still there, if you think writing this and having a story is two incompatible things you either never played RPs before this or you lie, Id like to remind you again our own RPs here, every single D&D you ever had (dont start telling me some bullshit about it not having a story and blahblahblah, its the same freaking story where the biasness of the GM is entirely removed by D20s and single spreadsheet with a few numbers), go watch the second yogsquest again, its a good show and illustrates my point perfectly.

In conclusion Id like to note that the amount of effort you need to put to make everyone's life that much easier is so small that I don't get why you keep trying to find pitiful reasons not to. I think tthe reason this happens is because Im the one who writes it, say what you want about you loving me and crap but its a fact, whenever I make a suggestion, a point a reference, anything , its subconsciously regarded differently by you all, even if you know what I say is true you'd still try to prove otherwise. If you believe there is a worthy reason not to use stats write it here so that I can disproof it. All I want from you is to understand that you are prejudiced against numbers for no reason, you just try to pull it out of your arse and make life for everyone difficult, I don't ask you to change the type of RP you have now.

Why am I going through the trouble ? Because perhaps then there would be a point for the RP tool I was making, to make keeping track of stats as easy as a click of a button, if you keep insisting on your witch hunt for numbers and your general phobia of 3rd grader math there is no point for me making it.

[Error]

The main issue that crops up with stat-heavy ERPs is it goes beyond "I have X ships at Y strength, ergo I defeat you with Z losses" and everyone ends up doing quite a lot of math (not Solar-level, but getting there.)

Fleet-numbers-math is done all the time. Fleet strength math is changing constantly, and is more "what's good for the story" instead of hard numbers.

Also, bear in mind balancing the game with numbers doesn't always work in play. E.g. A UTA fleet might have 30 ships in it, and can probably win against a Hexalani force of the same size, because their "Effectiveness" or "Strength" values are higher, but how does one factor in the, essentially, small-but-overpowered groups like the Novans?

Take a look:
UTA Destroyer: Strength 35/100 Toughness 27/100 Crew Skill 70/100
versus
Novan Destroyer: Strength 48/100 Toughness 35/100 Crew Skill 85/100

It'll be very hard to number-balance the game because of the huge disparity between groups; and besides, if we go hard-math, the Strigiforme might have the numbers to just roll over everyone else (because you can't fight the math!).

Most RPs/Current RP doesn't use numbers because we're trying to give it a fun and interesting story and "gameplay" (term used loosely), and avoiding numbers beyond fleets, populations, and planets because we find it unnecessary (plus, it rather represents real warfare; bad guy gets a new toy to hit you with, you develop a new one to hit him back, and so on). So besides "game balance" and "total impartial fairness", I can't see any real reason to go hard-math-RP.

>>>THAT BEING SAID.<<<

If you were to develop you fleet tracking, production, planets, and omni- tool program, we could probably fit it in quite smoothly. The issue is that most of us just mentally keep track of those things (and thus the rest don't know about it), but again, if you develop said tool, we can probably use it.

[Vinyl]

TL;DR Math isn't bad, it's just difficult and can be game-breaking at worst. Plus, writing is funner than counting.

Also, IIRC, you're the one who wanted anothercthread, Fen and co. just wanted you out of the RP thread.

[Iv121]

Yeah mate Im not stupid its fairly obvious they just wanted to get rid of me ...

As for Error if it was all that definite we wouldn't need GMs. After all Im not making ship stats like:
UTD nameNobodyGivesShitAbout 100 /23/324/45745/43665/32543/3532/21432/43242/3453245/2142/4324/879/87/9879/879980/46368732/864321
Basic stuff like dude x got 100 ships, he lost 5 so now he has 95 ! So hard to keep track of ... the math is also sooooo hard I wanna cry.

[Prototype]

I think it's more to doing it by the numbers makes for a different experience than being opposed to numbers themselves.

Might elaborate later, assuming this doesn't turn into a shitfest first.


Although the 100% by-the-numbers RP I did a while ago went pretty well until I couldn't update the map for reason. I could possibly draw something up to use real maths (much fun) but even you'd get tick off with that Iv (assuming it was actually you who wanted to keep calculations out of the mod).

I could quite happily partake in a maths based RP, but I acknowledge it's a different beast to what we are doing now and that people won't necessarily feel the same way.

[Iv121]

"Math beast', stop calling it irrelevant names, saying person x has 100 ships , he lost 5 now he has 95 is far from it, yeah I don't want to make equations like
DMG = |sqrt (s * b / r ^ 2)| / log 5 , that is stupid and naturally ruins the fun for everyone who came here to relax a bit, but making 100 - 5 = 95 is not something astronomical ppl .

[Error]

Then your point is totally nullified. We keep track of fleet numbers all the time. "A fleet of X ships has gone to Y." is a regular thing.

[Iv121]

Yeah, remind me its nullified next time you shout "we hate stats", thats the hypocrisy I was talking about, and no you don't do it half properly, the way you keep track of things on that RP is sporadic at best. Ofc Im not for equations however what you have there is practically nonexistent, a refusal to take a full step and instead a freezing midway with your leg in the air, you know you are bound to fall from there.In your defense though Id say the RP survived quite well despite its shortcomings, primarily because it doesn't take any decisive steps or grand events, its more related to your game style, you rarely do daring stuff.

[Error]

You don't even partake of the current RP (nor did you the last one). Why, precisely, do you give a damn?

[Iv121]

Why am I going through the trouble ? Because perhaps then there would be a point for the RP tool I was making, to make keeping track of stats as easy as a click of a button, if you keep insisting on your witch hunt for numbers and your general phobia of 3rd grader math there is no point for me making it.

And don’t be deluded I read it from time to time that RP. Also as far as I recall I was in the prev empire RP (unless you talk about this same one which was split in two practically)

[Error]

IIRC you weren't, but whatever. And merely reading it doesn't count as participatin', mate.

[Iv121]

Its not participating however its caring for it, plus weren't the reason I gave enough ? Selfish perhaps, but that only proves how real it is, you know being selfish in itself is not something bad especially if some other ppl could really use what you're doing for those selfish reasons ...

[Error]

TL;DR Guys, we're having fun the wrong way, Iv said so.

[Iv121]

Don't put your messages in my mouth,

whenever I make a suggestion, a point a reference, anything , its subconsciously regarded differently by you all, even if you know what I say is true you'd still try to prove otherwise.

The TL;DR you wanted follows the above sentence:

All I want from you is to understand that you are prejudiced against numbers for no reason, you just try to pull it out of your arse and make life for everyone difficult, I don't ask you to change the type of RP you have now.

That is all the TL;DR there is, I was able to fully predict the flow of this conversation so far. Now instead of trying to pointlessly oppose me

If you believe there is a worthy reason not to use stats write it here so that I can disproof it.

say it now or keep quiet forever.

[Error]

/emote quietly points out if Iv wants a stat-heavy RP precisely nothing is stopping him

And before you say "nobody would join it" let me counterpoint with "then maybe there's a dislike of stats among the RPers." And the ERPs cater to the wants of the RPers in general, not what you specifically want.