RP reset: psionics

[Ivan2006]

Okay, since we are resetting the RP with much more requirement to explain one's technology, I will propably have to chew on that quite a bit. After all, I am the "psionics guy", which means that I have to write up a physically plausible-sounding explanation for psionics in general and write about basically each of my technologies individually, as they are vastly different from what most others use. (again, because psionics)
However, psionics would be an entire new force of nature that has influence on those who do not use it as well.
I have a pretty detailed idea on how psionics work that I am going to write up, but before I write up every detail, I want the GM-board's approval on the major points and on how psionics would work differently form normal tech.

1) Psionic energy primarily exists as background radiation in Subspace. All psionic energy sources in the normal universe would merely draw that energy from subspace, therefore not breaking the first law of thermodynamics. Psionic energy also would quickly dissipate due to being native to subspace in our universe without proper containment.

2) Some paranormal phenomenons would be explainable by psionics (e.g. ghost hunting, exorcisms and similar practices being valid means of small-scale psionic cleanup or the existance of "mediums" who are seemingly capable of communicating with the dead)

3) Psionic FTL would be a subspace drive. Psionics being native to subspace would allow for psionic FTL to be among the first stable types of subspece drive. On the other hand, my faction's scientists would have considered psionic FTL the "most likely type of FTL to produce working results", which would lead to other types of FTL not being developed and my factions relatively late introduction to the galactic community.

4) My idea on how organics get their psionic signatures would have two side-effects: non-psionic aided cloning would be highly unstable, as cloned organics would not be guaranteed to have a stable psionic signature and may die off due to its loss. non-psionic AI owuld also never be able to achieve real sentience or emotions and can only simulate them. This means there will always be a certain risk of bugs to them, not to mention the psychological effect on an AI that simulates feelings learning that those feelings are not real.

5) Converting different forms of energy is never 100% efficient. However, the wasted energy caused by converting psionics into a different type of energy produces something known as "psionic flux". It is essentially psionic energy without a direction. It will cause random interaction when coming into contact with psionic fields (e.g. litterally drive people insane).

6) When a person dies, the reduction of energy emitting from them will turn into psionic flux. If they die too quickly (e.g. violent death) and has a certain thought in his mind while dieing (e.g. "I have been murdered"), the combination of that thought's psionic signature and the psionic flux may combine into an independent psionic entity with that last thought as its main "programming". Those would be the cause of the "haunting ghosts"-phenomenon. They may also merge with other psionic signatures if they come into contact shortly after the entities formation, which causes the host to become "possessed".
(OOC: as I said in point 2, paranormal phenomenons explained. This is partly also a justifications for psionics existing or an answer to the obvious question of "if psionics are a force of nature, why haven't they been noticed yet". My theory is that most human scientists have simply denied the effects of psionics, calling them "unscientific" and "unprovable", which left them in the realm of religion for a long time.)

further points WIP once I come up with more important stuff. Feel free to ask questions you have about my idea on psionics.

[Shadowcatbot]

Psionics = space magic
How to get? Be genetically cool enough.

[cats]

I've been thinking about this some too, actually. This and FC businesses. I suppose we should start work on the reset again. I agree that psionics need to be in FC and explained and ground rules laid, but my thoughts on how it's been done so far are that it works on RoC and dumbiology mixed with trollphysics. Telekinesis would need some kind of wetware to function; telepathy might work purely biologically to some extent. It's been hypothesized that humans and other things with brains generate EM or some other kind of field that affects stuff. I forgot the name of the hypothetical field, but look up random number generator experiments or something like that. It may be possible for an evolving population to harness that field to communicate.

1. Possibly maybe probably not. Psionics have to do with biology rather than interdimensional energy, it can't really be a single, solitary concept, just as FTL isn't a single, solitary concept. "Psionics" is an umbrella term. Perhaps one aspect of it can deal with subspace. Maybe. Subspace can't be "The Force" of FC, nor can it be the end-all goto source of explanations.

2. Ghosts? Magic? It sounds fun, but we're not StarWars nor do I want us to turn into Star Wars. Unifying everything supernatural with subspace and psionics is... bad. Why are you even including this in an idea for psionics? Maybe something about the minds of dead things mingling with subspace could be added when the rest is sorted out, but it doesn't need to be under psionics.

3. Psionic FTL... Why? How do and why should the two things connect at all? Dune-esquely? Subspace FTL is already a thing, but it's much more advanced than hyperspace FTL.

4. Why does cloning have anything to do with psionics? You're trying to give things finite souls. That doesn't make sense and is unnecessary and clashes with a lot of concepts that are used regularly and[/i] is much too close to religion/paranature/superstition and goes against the modern understanding of things.

5. Psionics can't be unified under a single thing like that (other than the actual title "psionics"). You could replace "psionic" with "magic" and it would still make sense.

6. Souls. No. Dead things interacting with subspace, maybe.

Magic. Maaagic.

Your specialization doesn't have to be wired into everything your faction does.

My idea is that organisms can evolve a means of affecting the world around them (communicating with others in a population), not to the extent in your ideas. Those organisms that have that ability can more easily adapt to apparatus needed to amplify those signals because they are better suited to using their mind it such ways. Since you're so keen on the idea of ghosts, mind would make an imprint on space and interdimensional space, meaning that their minds could continue existing in the overenergetic film of Subspace. The echo of energy from subspace to realspace might be felt by a powerful telepath or someone with a telepathy booster. More powerful minds would make a larger imprint. The other issue is the energy source and means to broadcast the energy over distances. The energy could come from the organism itself. The average human takes in about 2000 kilocalories per day, which is about 2 KG TNT energy equivalent. Metabolism could be heightened by the wetware and used to feed it. Devices could also be used to gather ambient energy and store it, or just create their own. Interdimensional energy might also be a source, but only in the far-future. Telekines might use something similar to the system used in plasma weaponry: overlapping or manipulated EM fields. Another method of transferring energy could be graviton emission, hardlight or (?physics) force field (far future).

[Shadowcatbot]

I would like to motion we just shove psionics into the "fuck it, magic!" bin since explaining it indef as cats has shown above would probably just mess with everything or be shameless stealing of previous concepts.


So like I said
Psionics = Space Magic

All we really need with it is just some general usage rules of how OP you can get before needing other OP stuff.

[Professor Fenway]

As far as I've seen it, Psionics is caused by a very specific genetic code which creates very specific patterns in a sentient's brain. These patterns resonate in subspace, effectively allowing for the sentient, through proper training and harnessing, to project energy and information through a local subspace medium.

This energy comes from a biological energy source hithero referred to as "life force" (no, this isn't magicky bullshit.) To quote metroid, "it takes no physical form, yet without it, the subject dies." This 'life force' is technically the collective energy density of the sentient in question, but it's simplified. Expending energy through psionics biologically requires portions of this energy density; overexertion can and will kill the subject. Prolonged use will drain the subject of energy. Alternatively, this energy can be supplied through biological amps, which siphon off this energy density slowly to fill a sort of capacitor. Energy will be used from these amps before being drained from the psionic itself. There is no theoretical limit to the power an amp can hold; with enough power, a psionic could theoretically pull a dreadnought out of orbit (though this is an EXTREME case).

Back to the psionic part itself, the subspace energy is able to manifest in many different forms upon reentering realspace. As a rule, it takes on the form of some sort of energy. EM radiation is the most versatile. The whole spectrum is available to a psionic. Psionics can also form a localized gravity field, a magnetic field, manipulate the strong and weak nuclear forces, manipulate all forms of energy, even harness dark energy.

If one wanted to use psionics mechanically, one would first need to find the precise pattern that allows a biologic to harmonize with subspace, and transfer it over to a mechanical design. Since it is often decided at the molecular level, artificial psionics would require EXTREME nano-technological engineering to get precisely the right pattern. A machine is heavily limited in function; it can only effectively be suited for one task, based on how the pattern is developed and made. However, it is powered by electricity rather than 'life force', since it draws it's energy from the energy density of the machine. Machines do not wear out as easily nor are they easily overloaded.

Psionics cannot be disrupted through simple subspace disruption; specialized equipment, on a level of complexity on par with psionics, is required to even affect the harmonization. Due to psionic's way of interacting with subspace, a subspace disruptor will not affect psionics at all, while a psionic disruptor will do nothing to subspace apart from psionics.

Just an idea.

[Iv121]

However powering whole ships by the "power of your mind" is a bit extreme don't you think ?

[Vinyl]

However powering whole ships by the "power of your mind" is a bit extreme don't you think ?

A being could technically expend their psionic power as electricity which could then be stored in a battery and thus used by a ship or anything else.
Or, to go off of Fen's idea, a being could offload their amp's energy into a special battery/generator which could then power a ship or anything else.
Alternatively, a collection of beings could use their psionic power as a sort of gravity drive, propelling the ship by creating a gravity field in front of the ship perpetually and, with proper training/numbers, indefinitely; unlike a conventional generator which has a limited fuel store.

[cats]

@Shadowcat: *violent sigh*

I would explain why I've sighed violently, but it's late and I don't want to give myself a hemorrhage. I instead point to the past counterprogressions, borne by examples similar to what you've just expressed, that stained the lore-writing process for over a month.


@Fen: I don't like the idea of purely biological psionics and I definitely don't like the idea that they have all of the forces of nature at their will. I don't like that solid definition of "psionic" because it's an umbrella term and should remain as such. As I've said, I don't want anything resembling Star Wars' The Force in FC and I don't want subspace to become the new yttrium.

[Iv121]

Basically Vinyl that means that Psionics are either an advanced control system like some sort of central ship computer or a giant ship filled with brains from top to bottom that move it around.

[Ivan2006]

in regard to catsonmeth's statement:

Spoiler:

You mentioned a "hypothetical field" in connection to what my research shows as the "Global Conciousness Project".
This special "hypothetical field" is partly tied into the Institute of Noetic Science, which the research of was a major influence in my idea on psionics.
That mentioned "field" would be located inside subspace.
The "psionic power" of a being would influence how one can interact with others through that field:
normal humans would have a psionic connection on a sub-concious level
psionically adept people would be capable of active telepathy
VERY powerful psionics may be capable of limited levitation of objects.

Now, to the bullet points:
1) I see your worries that "subspace" may turn into "The Force" of FC. Please however do keep in mind that the Force in SW was propably based on similar ideas as what most people around here think of Psionics, so havinga similar concept would sound sensible. Again, I in order to make people capable of typical psionic stuff (most notably, levitation) without breaking the laws of physics, we kinda need some sort of "psionic background energy" to draw that energy from. Locating this energy in subspace has several advantages gameplay-wise. For example, it would make psionic communication viable over interstellar distances. We also do not have to shove a web of energy into our normal universe and worry about why it would only have occasional effects in the universe aside from purposeful usage. As for the "biological source" and the "umbrella term" things, I was aiming at there being physical interaction between one's brain cells and this psionic meduim, which causes the psionic effects: normally one person's thoughts have influence on other people's thoughts and collective thoughts have minor effects on the environment. Psionically adept people may be able to purpusefully aim and control that influence or accurately sense the repercussions of other people's thoughts if even more advanced. (aka telepathy) Very rare individuals with extremely powerful psionic signatures would be able to steer this energy to influence the environment on their own, without the need for the "collective-thought"-effect.

2) I see how explaining paranormal things sounds like ripping off Star Wars. I will just be honest here, SW managed to get fairly close to my psionic theory with the Force. However, there are other connections between scientifically explainable psionics and those "paranormal phenomenons". While many of those phenomenons may be explainable by the means of "conventional" science, there is still a sense of "maybe something like this, but tbh we don't really have a definite idea". Paranormal activity is one of the greatest mysteries in modern science, which is why many scientists like to outright avoid it. Also paranormal phenomenons of specific kinds tend to follow specific patterns. So-called "mediums" (which would be those low-level psionics) can sense the presence of spirit-like objects and while most of them have "discovered" their ability on their own, they share remarkably similar views on when a human soul "moves on" and when it "stays in this realm" (see point 6)

3) Psionic FTL would basically just be a term for subspace FTL stabilized by psionics. As psionics would be native to subspace, interaction with this energy using psionics can be utilized to stabilize the bubble of normal space that gets flung through subspace, allowing it to be a fairly early type of subspace drive.

4) The idea is that a psionic signature would be tied into a higher being's nervous system. The nervous system of a human expects psionic input and may fail if that is cut off. I also imagine that psionic signatures are "nodes" that can not pop up themselves. The brain activity can maintain a node and over time alter its properties, but not create it from nothing. The idea is that during pregnancy, the fetus "runs" on the psionic node of the mother and those psionic nodes would be seperated during labor. (essentially the pain caused by labor would be a signal for the brain's psionic interaction mechanism to have the baby's psionic signature 'split off', also explaining why pregnant mothers seem to "know the feelings" of their baby, they simply share a psionic node.) Since clones are created from embryonal stem cells, this natural split-off of psionic nodes would not occur, meaning that clones would only survive if a) their brain activity somehow sparks a new psionic node (this would only occur very rarely and mostly if the DNA would normally have the brain develop in a way that causes very strong psionic interaction anyway) or b) they somehow manage to not rely on having a psionic energy, which would lead to the "heartless clone" phenomenon, as the psionic interaction would propably be a major cause for a human's empathic abilities, therefore the surviving non-psionic clones would inevitably end up with psychopath-like deficits in terms of empathic abilities, though they can learn to adapt to this deficit over time. "non-emotional AIs" would also be a cause of this, as human feelings are influenced by and interveined with psionics, making an accurate real reproduction of those without psionics very difficult. In general, while an especially programmed AI might have feelings, simply simulating the human brain without psionics would get you a psychopatic AI. This is what I meant, sorry, if my phrasing causes confusion.

5) Again, psionic/biologic interaction. This mainly refers to controlled energy drawn from subspace, not the biological component of psionics. This effect mainly has balancing and storytelling reasons to it and would not really be neccessary from an in-universe point of view, but would both limit the use of psionics (bad stuff happening if a psionic individual overuses one's powers or if one tried to power ordinary systems with large ammounts of psionic power. This is also a reason why my faction has THAT many psionics: we kinda were forced to develop psionic solutions to many things if we wanted to use psionic power production (for clearification, that would work by using an artificial psionic node to draw psionic energy from subspace) in order to avoid using the psionic equivalent of an unshielded fission reactor) and allow for usage as a plot device by GMs ("corruption"-effects)

6) They would not technically be "souls". They would not be sentient. They would "feel" similar to the person they originated from for a psionically adept individual capable of sensing them (aka "Mediums"), but would basically only be a shadow of a dead person's soul. Maybe not even have them be actual nodes (due to normally a stabilizing material interaction being required for psionic nodes to not dissipate and "ghosts" creating a plothole in this system), but rather have them be local anomalies that can cause random effects from nearby psionic nodes (poltergeist-effect). The "possession"-effect would occur if the loose energy gets absorbed by another person's psionic node before forming into an anomaly in the psionic background noise.

For "specialization doesn't have to be wired into everything", see point 5 as a reason as to why my faction (or at least the military-grade assets) would pretty much run on psionics.
Your ideas for technological gathering of psi energy sound generally similar to what I had in mind, except for the methods of getting large ammounts of psi energy, expect something on that later.
For technological use (also weaponization), I have another scientific explanation: such as in other natural forces, there would be a force carrier particle for psionics. (work term would be "huons", this should propably be changed for the final version to remove the Doctor Who reference) Again, as a force carrier, it is essentially identical with its associated force. If a huon is annihalated, it will release energy. Huons would disintegrate in normal space and, in most cases, turn into photons. This phenomenon would also be the cause of the "aura", an electromagnatic field around people. It would be possibly to estimate the emotional state and psionic capabilities of a being by observing this aura. (note: in order to observe the aura, very accurate instruments designed to filter out interference or special "dark rooms" to avoid interference altogether would be required for this) However, huons could also be directed at certain objects to cause effects on them, allowing for various effects based on their "intensity"
(think of it like the frequency of EM waves), which would mainly be in the form of kinetic energy (like photons primarily effect things by heating them, psionic energy just has a direction of force applied to it instead of just exciting the molecular components randomly), allowing for effects like telekinesis, as well as psionic shields (similar to what hard-light shields would do) or psionic DEWs (those would either have a direction of force identical with its fireing direction, acting like a particle beam or be left without a unified direction, acting like a laser or plasma weapon, inflicting heat demage), not to mention psionic tractor beams, which would be nothing more than technologically induced telekinesis. As a by-product of huons disintegrating, psionic equipment would get less effective over range (this however would be around the same range as lasers due to them moving at c and their half-life being approx. 0.5 seconds) while also giving a "glow" to any weapon-grade ammount of psionic energy due to the photons emitted in the disintegration process.

As a general comment, it seems like your idea of psionics being an "umbrella term" is not very compatible with other people's ideas. My general idea would be that there would be three major components to psionics that together create the effects of it. 1) The biological mechanics in a sentient brain. Creating artificial psionics would require mimicking these mechanics. 2) The psionic subspace medium. It would be the main means of psionic information transfer, be it telepathy, psionic sensing/sensors or communication, as well as being the source of 3) psionic nodes, basically a connection between realspace ans subspace held open and shaped by a reaction of the subspace medium on the biological mechanics. As it is a bridge between realspace and subspace allowing only psionic energy through, it would not be possible for a biological mechanism to create a node on its own, which would make the "node seperation at birth" mentioned before a scientific neccessity. 4) would be the psionic energy in realspace, as described above.

in regard to Fenway's statement:

Spoiler:

I see many parellels between your idea of psionics and mine. However, there are some major points of conflict: psionic power is not drawn from a finite source of "life-force" in my model. This is due to one simple reason: replenishing that pool of energy. Considering how much you suggest a psionic be capable of, the ammount of energy a psionic would have to acquire through eating would be enormous if that psionic was planning on using their powers regularily. Instead, the energy would come from a large, near-infinite medium in subspace. The psionic would still use up energy when controlling that energy, but there would be no violation of the first law of thermodynamics.
Also I object to psionics being able to manifest in pretty much any way possible. The unstable-force-carrier-particle-theory would be much more scientifically sound unless we make psionics the native forces of nature in subspoace in general. Keep in mind that this would make psionically stabilized subspace drives simply OP by all means.
And for mechanical use, mimicking the mechanics of the brain would be the most straight forward way of using psionics. Finding a substitute would however propably also be possible. (again, more on that later)
But yes, normal subspace jamming would propably be ineffective against psionics (as it is aimed at what is essentially an EM-wave carried through subspace) and vice-versa. They simply work with completely different types of signals. You couldn't block smoke signals with a radio jammer either, right?

[Error]

Simplified: "psionics" is the blanket term for any being capable of affecting - physically, mentally, or whatnot - objects, other beings, etc. via mental manipulation of subspace, hyperspace, or ambient radiation.

So, mind powers that work by using the energy of X dimension. So psionic energy is just drawing your ship's power from X.

[cats]

The "Force of FC" is more about psionics becoming a major plot point with specific rules but little base in reality, like The Force or eezo from ME. It should just be a fact that psionics are available and workable in the universe with our technology, they don't need a set of special rules. "Psionic energy," "Psionic flux," "Psionic Medium," etc. are examples of unnecessary lawmaking and constraining specificity that narrow the definition of "psionic" and push it farther outside the mesh of canon, making it more of a separate entity from the explained universe and closer to the space magic described by Shadowcat. If that explanation makes any sense at all.

Paranormal activity is avoided by scientists because it has no basis in science. Most instances where actual experimentation has been done has led to the debunking of the hypothesis or nothing at all. The only evidence for the existence of ghosts is that it's impossible to prove that something's not there.

Subspace is incredibly energetic and largely unfocused. It's nearly impossible to get into and even harder to sustain an amount of matter for any time. As it stands, subspace is a kind of dimensional film between realspace and hyperspace where the excess interdimensional energy exists. It can be analyzed easily enough, but it's hard to extract any large amount if energy and difficult to reach from realspace or hyperspace, even when using things like wormhole generators. I'm reluctant to allow biological linking between the dimensions because it will expand and eventually more and more fantastical things will be explained by it (energy beings, physical transcendence, the Marvel comics, god, etc.). This is the root of the problem I have with writing exceptions to the rules for psionics. When another set of rules is added, it's not just for that one thing, it's applied to the entire universe and will lead to a more complicated, more fantasy-ish web. "if we can use magic to explain _____, why can't it explain _____ too?" You're taking advantage of subspace's flexibility and that doesn't lead to nice places.

If one thinking being creates a field, another thinking being with a similar structure will create a field as well. If it didn't, then that would be selective and finite and too close to a god, souls, etc. We have a pretty good understanding of the basics of how emotions work. They're electrochemical process. They can be replicated and observed and induced. Empathy is an instinctual social mechanism based on sensory input and processing. There doesn't need to be a psionic explanation for it. And psionics shouldn't be wired into everything in the lore, it's not The Force and this isn't SW.

This is exactly the reason I don't want to have special rules for psionics. We start to get subspace power leeching and eventually space whales from the fourth dimension and fairies. Psionics doesn't have to have anything to do with subspace at all. It's okay for one facet of the concept of psionics to have something to do with interdimensional activity, but it doesn't have to be the entire thing. You're commandeering subspace and altering its rules and the rules of the universe overly much.

"Psionic" is an umbrella term, that's how it's defined. There are multiple ways to make the mind interact with the surrounding universe, all of which are under the term "psionics."

I don't dislike most of the system that you and Fen outlined, but that's only one possible method of it.

[Error]

Fair enough. But subspace-psionics are self-limiting. If subspace is THAT unstable, a psionic trying to pull godlike feats will probably do Bad Things to themselves, simply due to the inherent trippyness of subspace.

But whatever floats yer boat.

[Iv121]

Well its all fine by me so long you don't try to pull whole ships using your mind alone, using the ship's energy or many (many) beings is fine.

[ACH0225]

Iv, you don't even RP. Why are you here?