Physical physics are physical and such
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I don't think anyone wants to go hardcore KSP or anything like that (to the best of my knowledge our spaceships still generally handle like naval ones because...reasons) but I saw this neato diagram on a site today:
It's basically showing how turning would realistically work via the use of RCS. I'm not saying this should be a *thing* on larger ships, even though they'll certainly have auxiliary thrusters to serve the same function, but as far as dogfighting...I think that it would be really nice to veer away from the traditional Star Wars style of doing things and putting a focus on basically how the above picture puts it.
So if I were a starfighter pilot, the conventional hangar would slingshot me into space so as to get some momentum going, then I would use my RCS to orient my craft and activate my main thrusters when facing the combat zone to enter the fight. Of course, we technically don't need to even have them on afterward unless executing a maneuver...my explanation for this would be that 'SMART' drives are a thing in our setting. Basically the engine is always on to automatically compensate for passing inertial fields, gravitational pull, and whatnot. To 'accelerate' really means to overdrive this function to give a boost of speed when needed.
I guess the same could be said for larger vessels, who typically have less *proportionate* RCS the larger they are since it's more costly and are thus more cumbersome. Except in bigger ships it's a question of balancing out forward facing thrusters with the rear - of course our directions are created by imbalances in the system. IE 'Ahead Full' would be 25% forward-facing drives and 75% backward drives. The reason for even having forward facing is primarily for safety reasons. Those forward facers must be present, on and at a certain power to compensate for the backward thrusters in time to make a stop in order to avoid obstacles and such. So while objects in space don't stop, every ship is going to have their backward drives on as per the traditional sci fi cliche to ensure forward movement against these 'safety' thrusters, so to speak.
When your safety thrusters aren't on the assumption is the ship gets flung into space at extremely high velocity if the primaries are active on full. I'd say this would either be a crippling blow to a ship in battle (they'd basically have to turn off their drives and rely solely on RCS and some tricky drive manipulation to get around, kinda like a fighter except without the SMART factor to help out because size) or an actual tactic to achieve maximum ramming speed.
idklol I want to write something with work. Honestly dunno how you guys did engines in the thread(s) (sublight, hardlight, gaylight?) but I mean if this could be the standard to deviate from that'd be pretty cool. This is how I'm probably going to do and interpret it regardless.
It's basically showing how turning would realistically work via the use of RCS. I'm not saying this should be a *thing* on larger ships, even though they'll certainly have auxiliary thrusters to serve the same function, but as far as dogfighting...I think that it would be really nice to veer away from the traditional Star Wars style of doing things and putting a focus on basically how the above picture puts it.
So if I were a starfighter pilot, the conventional hangar would slingshot me into space so as to get some momentum going, then I would use my RCS to orient my craft and activate my main thrusters when facing the combat zone to enter the fight. Of course, we technically don't need to even have them on afterward unless executing a maneuver...my explanation for this would be that 'SMART' drives are a thing in our setting. Basically the engine is always on to automatically compensate for passing inertial fields, gravitational pull, and whatnot. To 'accelerate' really means to overdrive this function to give a boost of speed when needed.
I guess the same could be said for larger vessels, who typically have less *proportionate* RCS the larger they are since it's more costly and are thus more cumbersome. Except in bigger ships it's a question of balancing out forward facing thrusters with the rear - of course our directions are created by imbalances in the system. IE 'Ahead Full' would be 25% forward-facing drives and 75% backward drives. The reason for even having forward facing is primarily for safety reasons. Those forward facers must be present, on and at a certain power to compensate for the backward thrusters in time to make a stop in order to avoid obstacles and such. So while objects in space don't stop, every ship is going to have their backward drives on as per the traditional sci fi cliche to ensure forward movement against these 'safety' thrusters, so to speak.
When your safety thrusters aren't on the assumption is the ship gets flung into space at extremely high velocity if the primaries are active on full. I'd say this would either be a crippling blow to a ship in battle (they'd basically have to turn off their drives and rely solely on RCS and some tricky drive manipulation to get around, kinda like a fighter except without the SMART factor to help out because size) or an actual tactic to achieve maximum ramming speed.
idklol I want to write something with work. Honestly dunno how you guys did engines in the thread(s) (sublight, hardlight, gaylight?) but I mean if this could be the standard to deviate from that'd be pretty cool. This is how I'm probably going to do and interpret it regardless.
Re: Physical physics are physical and such
The problem with dogfighting realistically in space is that because they aren't orbiting, all the starfighters fall towards the planet and burn up unless they're constantly pointing their engines downwards.
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
Not all dogfights take place over planets, and it takes much longer for orbits to degrade than most media depicts :PAdrien Victus wrote:The problem with dogfighting realistically in space is that because they aren't orbiting, all the starfighters fall towards the planet and burn up unless they're constantly pointing their engines downwards.
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
Flight fields (the handwavium that allow the whole fighter-jets-IN-SPACE thing) can be altered - you can tell it to maintain velocity vector, but allow rotation.
So, you can travel in the same direction, but face any direction. This does extend to larger ships, too.
Vessels normally keep drives idle unless accelerating or decelerating.
So space combat (fighter-wise) is very BSG, with main thrusters to close and RCS to alter attitude and vector.
So, you can travel in the same direction, but face any direction. This does extend to larger ships, too.
Vessels normally keep drives idle unless accelerating or decelerating.
So space combat (fighter-wise) is very BSG, with main thrusters to close and RCS to alter attitude and vector.
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
Deal with it, or turn flight fields off and have to deal with gravity.
Take yer pick, mate.
Take yer pick, mate.
Re: Physical physics are physical and such
I'm going to be that guy again. What is the point of this thread? I'm in a loud room right now so I might not have gotten what you are trying to tell me but don't we all understand Newtons three laws?
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
idk what you're even saying, but you said 'fighter jets in space' and 'handwavium' in the same sentence and that's not something I want. Is there a third option where I say screw both of your choices?Icelandic Perehelion wrote:Deal with it, or turn flight fields off and have to deal with gravity.
Take yer pick, mate.
Irrelevant.CatsVsNinjas wrote:I'm going to be that guy again. What is the point of this thread? I'm in a loud room right now so I might not have gotten what you are trying to tell me but don't we all understand Newtons three laws?
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
Okay...
*sigh*
flight fields are a subset of FTL technology that allow ships to move more easily in space by reducing the effect of gravity. This is standard on any ship with FTL.
Said fields can be turned off, if you like.
Most ships keep them active to conserve fuel.
They do not, however, allow you to violate Newotwnian physics - most fighters simply have RCS systems that mimic atmospheric flight.
With me so far?
*sigh*
flight fields are a subset of FTL technology that allow ships to move more easily in space by reducing the effect of gravity. This is standard on any ship with FTL.
Said fields can be turned off, if you like.
Most ships keep them active to conserve fuel.
They do not, however, allow you to violate Newotwnian physics - most fighters simply have RCS systems that mimic atmospheric flight.
With me so far?
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
That doesn't make sense.
Most spaceflight doesn't even take place in gravity wells, and how would you 'reduce the effect of gravity' in the first place? Why in the world would anyone want to mimic atmospheric flight when the system I described would let you turn on a dime and just generally be more awesome than anything else on the battlefield?
Most spaceflight doesn't even take place in gravity wells, and how would you 'reduce the effect of gravity' in the first place? Why in the world would anyone want to mimic atmospheric flight when the system I described would let you turn on a dime and just generally be more awesome than anything else on the battlefield?
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
Because we don't limit ourselves to physics as they're understood now.
Flight fields work because we all agree they do, as mucking with orbits and actual physics is not something everyone can do easily.
And most spaceflight takes place over or around planets, because there's no reason to fly off into deep space when you're almost always fighting over planets.
And atmospheric flight is easier for the new pilots, or lazy civilians. Bear in mind civvies don't need to turn on a dime.
Flight fields work because we all agree they do, as mucking with orbits and actual physics is not something everyone can do easily.
And most spaceflight takes place over or around planets, because there's no reason to fly off into deep space when you're almost always fighting over planets.
And atmospheric flight is easier for the new pilots, or lazy civilians. Bear in mind civvies don't need to turn on a dime.
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
meh screw it
you guys can do your f16: space edition stuff
Taln are just gonna rock any fighter action I guess.
you guys can do your f16: space edition stuff
Taln are just gonna rock any fighter action I guess.
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
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Re: Physical physics are physical and such
ANY pilot with even a few minutes experience is going to use the Newtonian physics version.Chairman_Tiel wrote:Taln are just gonna rock any fighter action I guess.
Flying like a jet isn't required, it just exists for simplicity, mate, so the Taln are = to just about everyone.