Currency

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Post Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:22 pm

Currency

We've been shouting about it a lot in skype, I'll bring it here. My idea:

We want a player driven economy, but we don't want it to be based around barter. There needs to be a standard method of value. I'd propose gold, ironically. It takes a certain amount of time to find one gold bar, and since we are removing the nether (You all did confirm that, right?), gold farms are gone. So, my idea is this. Gold can be placed in a slot in your inventory/a machine, where it is consumed and you gain 100 K'lii, or so. No other material can do this directly. That means that the value of K'lii is mostly stable, although it will still fluctuate.

Part 2: The Market:

Players can create a shop-machine that allows them to set up sell orders and buy orders. Players can construct their own shops where they sell their wares, or sell their wares to larger markets. Markets can place buy orders and sell orders on specific materials; a refinery owner could say "I'd like to buy Unobtainium Ore at 50 k'lii apiece", and anybody who thought that was a good deal could sell Unobtainium to them at a price of 50 k'lii. Likewise, that refinery could also own a store where they would sell Refined Unobtainium for 60 k'lii apiece, and anybody who wanted unobtainium could buy it from they at 60 K'lii. But if they went one system over, they might find it going for 40 K'lii.

Seems fair to me; we have a free economy like people want, without making something inherently unstable. Thoughts?
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Post Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:45 pm

Re: Currency

Sounds good. A+
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Post Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Currency

That doesn't help much. What could be improved? What flaws? Honestly, I'd rate it a B- right now; it needs work.
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Post Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:58 pm

Re: Currency

Actually.

I've played games in a game where what you describe is a thing, and the end-result is people undercutting like mad until they're barely making a profit. But hey, as long as business isn't going toward the other guy, right?

Idk how EVE does it but might want to take a page from them.
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Post Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:01 pm

Re: Currency

Someone sticky this, IDK if I can.
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Post Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:03 pm

Re: Currency

Tiel wrote:Actually.

I've played games in a game where what you describe is a thing, and the end-result is people undercutting like mad until they're barely making a profit. But hey, as long as business isn't going toward the other guy, right?

Idk how EVE does it but might want to take a page from them.

EVE does this as well. It does have a market fee, so undercutting isn't as profitable.
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Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:57 am

Re: Currency

Well, there is still the possibility of random ore generation rates, meaning the following:
Ore generation rates are randomized for each ore, but with each ore at a minimum and total ore generation adding up to a value that is very similar for all planets (different values respected) it is assured that noone is handicapped.
This would result in some servers having a surplus in different materials than other servers, encouraging trade with the surplus/lacking resources.
Technically, in order to fight inflation, we might even want cartels or at least encourage trade to be handled not on a player level, but on a faction level.
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Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:37 am

Re: Currency

I'll just write down what I've already proposed on skype.

My version would have a certain "money printer"-tech available somewhere in mid game. I assume that by then there'll be some factions or even starting out empires with an at least partial control over their system. Every player could reserve one name for a currency, which is then kinda "copyrighted" by him from the main server. Every time the player wants to print more currency, the server checks if it's really him, and only then allows him to do so. He could also share the code of that currency's production copyright, giving a few players to produce it in his name should more be needed in his absence. The faction, who then generates the currency starts to try and trade it in for resources with other organisations/factions, and also starts paying its employees and members with it. Slowly, barter is going to be changed with money. In this version, printed money would be an object, dropped at death. The faction/organisation who provides the currency could then also keep check of several players' book money they keep at their bank, on an interstellar scale. For example, two traders establishing contact with that banker faction's central or a branch office, and transfering money just over without the risk of losing it or their goods on death, boosting economy as traders would have some kind of backup. That faction would be some kind of lobby, holding quite some power, and of course they could exploit it, but that's not any different than from real life. It'd be the definition of capitalistic economy.

Two enemy empires wouldn't accept each other's currency, obviously, while allied ones probably would. That'd make things like wars much more noticable, as your opportunites in enemy territory would be rather limited and you could be debunked as spy should anyone see you with enemy currency, and vice versa for them. Another thing is that such banking guilds wouldn't necessarily have to be part of an empire directly. They could span their territory over several of them, in an illuminati-ish way establishing power through the power of money, which is one of its main purposes of capitalism and money itself. Kind of a Rothschild-clan in Minecraft, which would add to the immersiveness immensely. And yes, there are players who would take such a responsibility seriously, keeping the galaxies currency in balance.

Multiple banks with different currencies could, depending on their alignment, accept each others money for a course or just as well not. Another subtle possibility, closing in on economy in reality. Believe me, no one would really notice, no player would actually be obligated to work with them, but it'd be a very profitable and comfortable business relation for both of them. In a peaceful galaxy, the currencies could just be used anywhere. And there wouldn't be too many of those, a few behemoth banks would soon rise as backbones for their empires or by themselves around the beginning, and random people inventing some other kind of random currency wouldn't have a chance to establish it on a galactic scale without support, making those few first important currencies keep themselves stable while used. However, underground currencies, or things like very well bitcoin could then also become an unofficial kind of thing in rather shady and dangerous parts of the universe.

Before you come with arguments like "it's too complicated to be fun", "this is no economy simulation", "it'd be too exploitable", well, first of all, barely anyone would notice anything in game. Empires, who want to get away from barter trade just invent their currency, and an empire in itself is in a way an economy, so that's a natural and logical step. An empire or stable civilisation would also be required in the first place to get it going at all, another way random currencies would die out. As for exploitability, it's not unsafer than any other options provided, just that in this one the empires and economies have to take care of their own economy themselves if they don't want it to collapse and continue to profit from it. Maintaining it would have benefits such as getting more players into your territory and to use that currency to purchase services unique to your empire, or, obviously, giving the possibility for a centralised mean of payment, which also keeps people in your territory, making it more likely to stay and join you. Or they could just stay at barter trade, that's an option too for them, but those benefits wouldn't be available to them, then, which could make the fatal difference in a rivalry between two empires.

I sincerely ask you not to just dismiss it. Read through it and think about it carefully. Most players wouldn't notice anything complicated, it'd just be banks and empire management, which would control and keep it alive, giving them another entertaining activity besides gathering resources, expanding randomly and fighting wars. Not to mention that it'd get rid of item/currency spawning NPCs, which should in my opinion be avoided at all costs.

(And don't you dare doing the tl:dr -.- , although I admit it being longer than I thought it'd be)
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Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:32 pm

Re: Currency

So what you're saying is to give factions the ability to mint their own currency if they want to, and set up a way to implement a banking system. I like it, but how would we measure the nation's actual wealth to give value to its currency?
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Post Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:18 pm

Re: Currency

I'm deprived of sleep, and am not sure anymore what I just wrote. Here you have it anyway:
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That'd had to be sorted out by the banks guilds, but indirectly through their technological advancement, supply and demand. The traders, who set the prices well enough to profit off them, but still be under their concurrents would naturally find a balance. The first step would probably the empire itself offer services, food and other things for that currency, for a price they set. That would be the initial value of their goods, and it would balance itself out with other traders and shopkeepers selling for less. That's the value of the currency. The wealth of the nation would probably not be as much measured in their currency, but more by their prosperity. The level and kind of their tech, the quality of their goods, how far they've spread, their dominance, etc. would, due to traders selling such goods, mirror in that empire's currency value compared to others, and therefore increase its national wealth.
It's kind of a complicated circle of supply, demand and random factors, which would however even themself out.


But, to answer your question directly, a nation's wealth is determined by its influence, its supply of resources, its demand of such and the favor of the intergalactic lobbies established by then, if that nation is also competing with other markets instead of staying isolated.
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"When I get a hold of a Boeing 777 I will stuff it in the cargo bay my freighter and when I find you I will engage in an invasion of your butt that will make 9/11 look like a picnic, Hexalani swine." -Kobialka, 0531015.M3
"Hyperlite, you *." -Tau, 0446015.M3









Don't tell anybody, but to this day I have a faint hope for Futurecraft, or something similar to it, to happen. Within my lifetime.

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