Realistic Block Mass

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Post Thu May 29, 2014 6:40 pm

Re: Realistic Block Mass

As much as I enjoy watching you two fight can we please have a discussion without it? Ignore each other if necessary.
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Post Thu May 29, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Look, I'm all for abandoning the 'Minecraft mod' side of Futurecraft completely and just making a space game. What we're theoretically working on is already orders of magnitude more than we have any hope of accomplishing, so making it even more impressive doesn't lessen our chance of getting it done. But assuming that's not what's being suggested here, and I don't think it is, dramatically decreasing the player's inventory size as in TerraFirmaCraft will move us only towards frustration, and that's not even what's being suggested here. I don't even know what to say about the suggestion in the OP other than to wonder whether Shadowcat has ever actually played Minecraft. How many blocks have to be mined to make a straight staircase down to bedrock from sea level? Maybe 200? The idea that anyone would want to carry every block back up that staircase one at a time is totally absurd. He's essentially suggesting that Steve's inventory be reduced by a factor of two thousand. If the problems with that aren't immediately obvious I'm not certain I know how to explain them. Futurecraft is supposed to continue more or less seamlessly out of Minecraft's tech tree. That's simply not possible if anything like this is implemented. You aren't left with anything even vaguely resembling a playable game.
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Post Thu May 29, 2014 8:23 pm

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Adrien Victus wrote:Look, I'm all for abandoning the 'Minecraft mod' side of Futurecraft completely and just making a space game. What we're theoretically working on is already orders of magnitude more than we have any hope of accomplishing, so making it even more impressive doesn't lessen our chance of getting it done. But assuming that's not what's being suggested here, and I don't think it is, dramatically decreasing the player's inventory size as in TerraFirmaCraft will move us only towards frustration, and that's not even what's being suggested here. I don't even know what to say about the suggestion in the OP other than to wonder whether Shadowcat has ever actually played Minecraft. How many blocks have to be mined to make a straight staircase down to bedrock from sea level? Maybe 200? The idea that anyone would want to carry every block back up that staircase one at a time is totally absurd. He's essentially suggesting that Steve's inventory be reduced by a factor of two thousand. If the problems with that aren't immediately obvious I'm not certain I know how to explain them. Futurecraft is supposed to continue more or less seamlessly out of Minecraft's tech tree. That's simply not possible if anything like this is implemented. You aren't left with anything even vaguely resembling a playable game.

"Supposed to" and "more or less" are very strong words here, we're already gutting about 90% of "iconic minecraft" so it's not like we won't have already destroyed the concepts of minecraft already. If we're going to go that far why not just redo the rather lacking vanilla tech tree. Why would you need to dig to bedrock as a beginning player? The only thing that really needs reorder with this is ores should be condensed into large uncommon but not rare deposits/veins so mining is profitable enough with the added hardness. But beyond that it's not like you won't be advancing into more advanced methods of transport and mining and eventually your just going to have the shoopdewoop mining tele mech 9000 anyway which will work out with this to make it worth getting there but it will prevent the unbalance of high tier players like say the digiminer from mekanism which removes all need for mining and leaves you with piles of ores. And also the way we want factions to be layed out you should have plenty of help to do what you want. And if it's still too tedious then there could be some sort of construction block or fencing which you could place down and go into a ghost creative mode where you could pick up mined blocks and plan out a building then pop out and press build, earlier versions would have you sit there while a timer runs down and later versions would run off of robots.
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 2:12 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Chairman_Tiel wrote:As much as I enjoy watching you two fight can we please have a discussion without it? Ignore each other if necessary.


Good, so how much did we bet on yesterday Sara ? That I will be blamed in the whole argument ? Well guess we didn’t because you said you don't bet on something you know you'd loose, and if you go there to the origin point Im not even the one to blame. As for you LJS no quit blaming it on my language barrier, in fact what I know how to do is to read the important points of a passage, you are all showing up what Im talking about and so all that is left is to make you admit it. It is easy to try to dismiss it all on my language barrier even though you know my English is better than that of so many people online.

I will begin by blowing up your main argument :

THE INVENTORY REMAINS UNCHANGED, YOU CAN ACCESS IT LIKE IN ANY OTHER MC, HOWEVER IT IS LIMITED BY YOUR SHIP CAPACITY WHICH COMBINES THE BEST OF BOTH SYSTEMS.

Now LJS TRY to disproof this without proving my point about you not accepting changes. It was my argument all along and you still insist on ignoring it , why ? Because its a good one ?
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 5:55 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Iv, I think it's been said a ton in the past: you really need to stop acting like opposing arguments are enemies to destroy or tanks to 'blow up'. It borders on bad manner and only generates resentment from whoever you're debating with. The key to a successful and thought-provoking discussion is just that - actually thinking this stuff through and showing you're giving it consideration instead of just up and saying the equivalent of "I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG, NO QUESTION" every time you get drawn into an argument.
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 8:04 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Well over there you have an argument, feel free to try and argue against it, really the only reason Im sort of tick of there is because you did all the things I hate you do:

1. Ignored my arguments when I said them calmly.
2. Blamed it all on me as always.
3. Try to disregard me as meaningless part of this discussion.

Well if you need me to write in bold text in order to get your attention there you go right above you.
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 8:31 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Iv121 wrote:Well over there you have an argument, feel free to try and argue against it, really the only reason Im sort of tick of there is because you did all the things I hate you do:

1. Ignored my arguments when I said them calmly.
2. Blamed it all on me as always.
3. Try to disregard me as meaningless part of this discussion.

Well if you need me to write in bold text in order to get your attention there you go right above you.

No, Iv, that's the problem. We didn't. Look at that post of Tiel's that you quoted. Your name wasn't even mentioned, but you interpreted it as him blaming you for everything when it was nothing of the sort.
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 9:22 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Even if you remove claim 2 and 3 claim 1 remains.
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 9:45 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Alright. I'm bringing the boom down; any posts not directly related to the topic, and/or any posts that appear excessively argumentative will be removed or edited. If this persists, the lockhammer will descend.

Guys, seriosuly, if you have a bone to pick, PMs exist, and you could start a thread in Members' Lounge if you so desire.
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

Space Hitler wrote:"Supposed to" and "more or less" are very strong words here, we're already gutting about 90% of "iconic minecraft" so it's not like we won't have already destroyed the concepts of minecraft already. If we're going to go that far why not just redo the rather lacking vanilla tech tree. Why would you need to dig to bedrock as a beginning player? The only thing that really needs reorder with this is ores should be condensed into large uncommon but not rare deposits/veins so mining is profitable enough with the added hardness. But beyond that it's not like you won't be advancing into more advanced methods of transport and mining and eventually your just going to have the shoopdewoop mining tele mech 9000 anyway which will work out with this to make it worth getting there but it will prevent the unbalance of high tier players like say the digiminer from mekanism which removes all need for mining and leaves you with piles of ores. And also the way we want factions to be layed out you should have plenty of help to do what you want. And if it's still too tedious then there could be some sort of construction block or fencing which you could place down and go into a ghost creative mode where you could pick up mined blocks and plan out a building then pop out and press build, earlier versions would have you sit there while a timer runs down and later versions would run off of robots.

If your idea was implemented, you could not play Minecraft. You could not mine. You could not build. Constructing even a small building would take hours. I'm asking totally seriously here: how much time have you spent playing vMC Survival? Yes, you will get past this eventually. Once you have a spaceship this won't matter. But the current plan for Futurecraft is that you start off playing Minecraft and it develops into Futurecraft as you go. That is not possible if this is implemented. If we're planning to go so far away from anything like Minecraft that mining is no longer something that you do, let's go all the way and make EVE Online with ships you design yourself. I'd play that.
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(Kzinti script, as best as can be displayed in Human characters, translated roughly as "For the Patriarchy!")
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Post Fri May 30, 2014 11:57 am

Re: Realistic Block Mass

For the most part, this idea concerns the initial part of gameplay, before players develop ships, shipyards, and automatic builders. Dirt, stone, and wood, the simplest building materials, would have the same (or only slightly decreased) stackability. More valuable materials need more space, meaning that they also require more thought to be put into transportation and more effort spent on building with them.
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