Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce Vote

Concerning changes to the rules, styling, etc. As this is a new forum, feedback is appreciated.

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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:02 pm

Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce Vote

This vote will be held according to the rules I established in the original thread itself.

Clarifying that voting "Yes" in this vote will mean that on-topic will be enforced in all subforums excluding Members' Lounge where on-topic will be enforced only upon request from the OP.

Voting "No" in this topic will mean that on-topic will be enforced in all subforums with no exceptions. As for the ways of enforcement themselves those were not specified in the original vote (Yet another shortcoming of that vote) so you will have to somehow decide it on your own, elsewhere.

Clarifying that the current status of the latest vote is "passed" thus on-topic is currently enforced in the members' lounge until the results of this vote state otherwise.

For now this topic has little to discuss as it is merely a re-vote, if you want to continue the discussion of other possible solutions for off-topic in members' lounge you are welcome to do so.



Vote will open up on 27.9.14 at 20:00 GMT. In the upcoming day all active members on the forum will receive a PM with a random number the member will use to vote, after that only the list of numbers will be kept with no association between the number and the member name thus ensuring the vote will remain incognito while falsifying votes will be impossible. If you didn't get a number by 27.9.14 20:00 GMT you are welcome to PM me and I will send you a number. The vote will close at 30.9.14 20:00 GMT.





I hope you see the difference now LJS between refusing to accept a vote and ensuring votes are held fairly on the forum, on that sidenote you owe me an apology I believe, and even if my motives are different the thing I do here is fair nevertheless for all parties involved in which case I believe I yet again deserve an apology from you. Don't blame ppl without proof or in fact anything constructive but your hatred to back you up, I know you hate me as if Im fking Hitler or something but please get over it, how old are you ? We are not children here.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:05 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Iv, we have, at most, 15 members. I doubt this is necessary.

UNless we get mass protest, however,t his unnecessary re-vote will go ahead.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:07 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Hey LJS wanted to enforce on-topic even though we are (theoretically assuming there are no false votes there) 15 active members in which case its clearly not needed, so why can't I make this revote ?
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:09 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

LJS wanted to go from "On topic enforced only on request" to "On topic enforced by default". Essentially, he wanted to alter the rules so that the Members' Lounge was not exempt from ontopic rules.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:15 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Vote using the forum voting feature, one vote per member, everyone sees results immediately --> obviously rigged
Iv runs entire vote by himself, everyone ese takes his word for what happened --> no way this could go wrong
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Well got any objections ? state them clearly and I will find a solution for your prob. Either take responsibility for your words and blames or stop wasting everyone's time.

What Im afraid of is that fictive accounts were used to make votes here. By sending PMs to ppl you get the account security of the forums while ensuring no alts are made for votes, the solution is thought through. If you don't trust me to handle the number assigning and or if you are afraid that I will create fictive numbers and use them to vote in my favor I can leave this duty to someone else or simply abolish the numbers and make a clear visible vote here, with posts in this very thread. Moreover I will abstain from voting during the initial stages of the votes so that I cannot effect the votes one side or another, after all even you don't know for sure if Im for full on-topic enforcement or not, I didn't state a clear opinion so far.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Okay, Iv, I have a problem: I don't trust you not to rig the vote exactly as you've been assuing us of doing.

And There's another way to do this. Everyone posts "Yes, I want on-topic to be enforced in the Members' Lounge" -OR- "No, I don't want on-topic to be enforved in the Members' Lounge". And then we manually count the votes; and the three counters (MYself, you, LJS or some such) all post their counts. Work?
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:07 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

You didn't read my post didn't you Error , its what I wrote above. And no I have trust in LJS or you or anyone, I don't know and I cant know who made the fictive votes, however im glad to know you don't trust me. As for the counting I think we are all big boys and girls and know how to count ourselves, one count by me will be enough and anyone who doesn't trust me can count the votes himself at any time, open votes it is then.

Any more concerns ?
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:09 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Iv, this is why I fail to trust you.

"Don't worry I'm infallible you all rig thinngs pbv so let me do this"

No. The on-topic will be enforced and remain in place unless this petition passes (you must invalidate the previous vote, then redo it), or Tau explicitly tells me to invalidate it. This is nonegotiable.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:14 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

I vote we go back to the old way. Off topic has never been a noticeable problem, and pointing it out to a mod has always worked.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Error I really want to send you off with a blast right now but I will restrain myself, instead I will quote my very own words that you clearly didnt read. If you want to participate in this topic or any discussion for the matter go read what your opponent wrote and don't you dare putting words I didnt say in my mouth.

L-ADM Error wrote:"Don't worry I'm infallible you all rig thinngs pbv so let me do this"


Iv121 wrote: And no I have trust in LJS or you or anyone, I don't know and I cant know who made the fictive votes, however im glad to know you don't trust me.


L-ADM Error wrote:No. The on-topic will be enforced and remain in place unless this petition passes (you must invalidate the previous vote, then redo it), or Tau explicitly tells me to invalidate it. This is nonegotiable.


Iv121 wrote:Clarifying that the current status of the latest vote is "passed" thus on-topic is currently enforced in the members' lounge until the results of this vote state otherwise.



Im tired of you ppl endlessly antagonizing me. You gang up on me, you both LJS and Error, openly lie and twist my words in an attempt to make me look as If Im whining to advance your own interests. Please take back your words and do not insult me any further.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:20 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Apologies, but I should restate. There will be no redo of the enforcement vote.

On-topic will be enforced by default in the Members' Lounge subforum, unless requested otherwise by a topic creator. This enforcement will remain in place unless overturned by majority vote or an instruction from Tau. This is nonegotiable. If you take issue with this, wait a day or two then start a vote to repeal the enforcement.

However, given the recent majority vote in favour of enforcement, the effacy of this is debatable. Nevertheless, the option is open.

Iv; the original thread on on-topic had a poll, which showed a clear majority in favour of enforcing on-topic. Whether you trust those votes is irrelevant, and you can take it up with Tau if you wish.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Its not irrelevant mate, I was disgusted when for the first time I caught people falsifying votes on this forum, and when we got 9 votes in 5 hours in our not so active community you can't blame me for being suspicious. The purity of the votes is an important factor of it's legitimacy, and it wasn't the only problem that vote had, that is why I identified all the problems and fixed them in this vote. As I said earlier its not a vote against the proposal, rather if this vote fails as it should do assuming the prev vote was legitimate it will only strengthen the legitimacy of the original.

As said earlier I have no interest in enforcing or not enforcing on-topic in the members' lounge but rather Im more interested in preventing the falsifying of votes and making sure you have a working example of how to make a proper proposal vote in the future, you know ... my usual perfectionism and idealism, nothing more nothing less.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:31 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

You have absolutely no evidence or anything suggesting that there might have been falsification, and I'd like you to link to any other time the idea of vote falsification has even come up on these forums, ever. You don't like that you lost and now you're pulling stuff out of your ass to give everybody else a hard time about it.
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Post Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:32 pm

Re: Formal Petition to Invalidate Latest Off-Topic Enforce V

Iv. Please refer to my previous post; starting another poll is perfectly fine. And having most of our active members vote within the space of a few hours is hardly suspicious; having more than our number of active members (of which we have ~15) would be.

My suggestion is: rename this topic to "Should on topic be enforced in the Members' Lounge", start a poll, give it a few days, observe the results. BE AWARE: unless this is done via the everyone-posts-their-vote or a forum poll, the result will not be applied.

You are wearing my patience thin; continued arguments over the validity of the previous vote will result in a lock.
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