A suggestion.

Concerning changes to the rules, styling, etc. As this is a new forum, feedback is appreciated.

Should these rules be added officially?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:59 am

Yes
6
55%
No
2
18%
Only one of the two (post below)
0
No votes
Yes, with alterations (Post below)
3
27%
 
Total votes : 11

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Post Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:52 pm

A suggestion.

Icelandic Perehelion wrote:In the short form, I'm here to ask for a couple of new rules to be considered.

In the long form, a number of forum members, specifically <snip>, have been giving me grief and the rules don't allow me to avoid this without reeeeeeaaaalllly creative interpretation.

1; Avoid off topic posting. If a new discussion appears in a thread, a new thread can be created. Off topic will only be enforced outside the Member's Lounge (otherwise I'd be here all day).

2; No antagonizing other forum members. Civil discussions and arguments are fine, constant warnings to keep it calm and civil is trying my patience.

I din't feel these are too unreasonable, and if you feel it necessary, post these up for consideration by everyone.

-Error

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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:38 am

Re: A suggestion.

1. You will ban half the forum on off-topic. I already gave my analysis of how to deal with off-topic:

Iv121 wrote:Let me put it this way: When a thread is created it sets a specific topic that is supposed to be discussed in it, that is why the highest posting priority goes to those who wish to discuss the set topic. The moderator's job is to ensure that those members do get the priority in the discussion by preventing off-topic upon request.

HOWEVER if no one comes to claim that priority it becomes pointless to try and give priority to someone who doesn't exist, moreover locking a topic does not allow the actual users who wish to stay on topic to actually post anything in that topic , making this act pointless at the very core. When an original topic becomes irrelevant anymore locking the thread does not help anyone either as it prevents from anyone who wishes to revive the discussion at a later date to actually do so.


To conclude, a moderator’s job is to ensure that those who want to stay on topic get the highest priority in a discussion, this by making an official request and afterwards perhaps deleting the off-topic post. Locking any thread for the reason of it being off topic is a meaningless act that only annoys people without giving any actual benefit. Due to this fact I request to unlock the following topic for the public (even though it is basically nothing more than a symbolic deed):

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=978&start=20


Its already proven it works, stick to it and avoid hurting other ppl's freedom of speech. You know also why you will ban half the forum for it ? Because off-topic never starts as off-topic, it is always part of the discussion and always remains part of the discussion as it shifts gently, but the end point of this discussion ends up far off the original topic which creates the problem. My case covers it perfectly, Error's case the way he presented it in numerous topics outside of here will not only fail to identify the proper timing to define a shift in discussion as "off-topic" but as a result fail to deal with it accordingly and punish unsuspecting ppl, forcing them to not express their thoughts from merely being afraid they go one inch out of the discussion which is BTW still on topic ! The adv of having people point out when discussion is too off-topic for them is that you always get both a warning sign to stop the derailment and you will get it EXACTLY when the topic became off-topic because off-topic is a shift in discussion to the point that troubles other members, the point where they say the discussion shafted themselves in other words.


2. Antagonizing other forum members will be an excuse for someone very specific to go on at someone very specific, changing the rules is not the way to win arguments Error, remember what I told you about retroactive rules ? Its a good law but Im afraid Error will have a hard time with it and as a result I will too, Thats the prob:

To this point "civil discussions" is discussion without friction, in other words a discussion with only one opinion present in it. If you want this law to pass lets make it clear - Antagonizing other forum members is what we call "at the man" comments in the middle of arguments, prob arises again in arguments that discuss a pattern of behavior for example like we had yesterday, here you could classify everything as "at the man" banning people for merely disagreeing with you in other words.

Basically what it means is that in my opinion num 2 needs refining.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:55 am

Re: A suggestion.

Iv, read both those again. Off topic in the Members' Lounge will not be locked. Nor will OT in the roleplay subforum. Everywhere else on the forum has a fairly specific purpose (Gaming for games, development for devs, etc.) And as long as the OT stays within the fairly loose limits of that subforum, you'll be fine.

As for the second one? Don't actively attempt to start an argument or fight. Point out things you see as flawed or wrong, and suggest a fix. You're doing that here.

Also, "civil" discussion is simply arguments without the name calling I've seen cropping up lately, and the aggression people show to each other -not just you - when arguments heat up.


I apolgize that we have rules here. But frankly? I talked to friend for ideas, and his first suggestion was bans and warnings. I feel you're getting a fairly easy deal here.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:23 am

Re: A suggestion.

No easy deals will expect you here. The mere existence of a dev section implies we will have many, many, heated arguments to come, and believe me after a few of those "civil arguments" you will have a straight up urge to punch that hypocrite in the face as it will really come to telling petty lies and flattering, or that standard "no offense but [offense]", really it wont change the contents of the discussion which are the reason those arguments will feel uncomfortable.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:50 am

Re: A suggestion.

Iv, my job as a moderator is to ensure all members get their reasonable enjoyment of this forum. Heated arguments and name calling is rarely enjoyable.

And the alternative is we go anarchy and the forum degenerates into senseless fighting ecen faster than you seem to be prophesizing.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:29 am

Re: A suggestion.

I know your job as a moderator no need to tell me that, its true that heated arguments and name calling which we didn’t have are not enjoyable but in the same time removing them by removing friction completely will do nothing good to your freedom of speech. You know its cool to live in a paradise where everyone thinks exactly like you and the internet actually allows ppl that think identically to hang out with each other, the result product however is that when you are exposed to only what you already think you do not evolve your thoughts and instead actually devolve them, that is why the internet can dumb ppl down.

Apart from this concern which is more ideological the arguments in the dev section are eventually a necessity as again if done right they will help you pick the best course of action. In the same time its hard to define how to do "arguments right" and more importantly how to draw results from them properly.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:58 am

Re: A suggestion.

I am not trying to kill your freedom of speech, I am not trying to turn everybody into the same person, I am requesting the introduction of two fairly basic rules that will prevent futuree conflicts which impinge on others' reasonable enjoyment.

"I rejoice in out differences." Having different opinions and ideologies is great, nay excellent; having heated arguments over whether or not to go from a server we're established on to a new one is not.

Please stop reading into my posts too much. Take it at face value.

EDIT: poll created.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: A suggestion.

I don't read into your posts, morel ike trying to predict the implications. Want to pass them ? Fine, adjust them to the point where they solve the numerous problems I found in them.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: A suggestion.

I find your constant self-entitlement trying, Iv. Perhaps I would do what you ask if you, well, *ask*, not demand. Remember the magic word.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:57 pm

Re: A suggestion.

You know that even if I ask pretty please you won't do anything with it, Im not self entitling myself or something, I pointed out flaws in the law, it is not a mere "recommendation" to fix it and I expect you to give appropriate answer to those, I didn’t do it because I bear a title of some sort, ANY member can do it and you know it well. Also I thought we already talked about that self entitlement stuff before Error.

Also for the sake of experimenting - could you please fix the flaws in the law ? Thx.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:09 pm

Re: A suggestion.

They're now laws. They're rules. And I will make the changes requested if, say, 3 or more people ask me to. We have far more than that, so I think 3 is fine.

And if you alone ask? I won't change it, no. If the community as a whole asks? I will, funny enough. You seem to be taking the role of spokesman, and I'm not sure why.
And no, any member can't just stroll in, demand a change, and get it. Several members? They can.

I'll add an option to the poll.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: A suggestion.

Voted on alterations.
See Iv's posts for details.
Quotes:
Spoiler:
CMA wrote:IT'S MY HOT BODY AND I DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT.

Tiel wrote:hey now no need to be rough

Daynel wrote: you can talk gay and furry to me any time

CMA wrote:And I can't fuck myself, my ass is currently occupied

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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:46 pm

Re: A suggestion.

I like it. If nobody else objects, we can go ahead and enact these new rules officially.

If anyone does object, speak up.
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Post Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:13 pm

Re: A suggestion.

I already spoke up with a set of stuff that needs to be improved. I would like to hear an explanation why if specific flaws were identified in a given rule you refuse to fix it ? Id like to get your logic ... or perhaps there never was one ?

And don't give me that "The majority didn't vote for it" crap, the majority can vote for accepting a law but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be modified because hell its important to have your rules as perfect as possible because if they won't be perfect they will cause trouble and a lot of it.

Oh and also on un unrelated mod when will you finally appoint a judge ? Its not gonna work without one.
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Post Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:20 am

Re: A suggestion.

3 people voted for Iv's alterations, the petition is passed.
Quotes:
Spoiler:
CMA wrote:IT'S MY HOT BODY AND I DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT.

Tiel wrote:hey now no need to be rough

Daynel wrote: you can talk gay and furry to me any time

CMA wrote:And I can't fuck myself, my ass is currently occupied
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